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Old 12-23-2009   #31
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No i don't know about it sorry...If there is ever a vcoderz meeting that you'll attend i'll make sure to send a movie about 3ashoura2 your way though
im sensing a negative sarcastic remark about me not attending any of the meetings :P
khalass next time bta3emlo chi ill try my best (unless its an athletic eventP


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Old 12-23-2009   #32
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im sensing a negative sarcastic remark about me not attending any of the meetings :P
khalass next time bta3emlo chi ill try my best (unless its an athletic eventP
nooo noo noo ma tkhaf i only get sarcastic when the one debating me keeps going around the point instead of attacking the subject head on...ya3ne eza jeye ysheri3 la ysheri3

kent 3am be7ke jadd mayyellak 3a shi meeting w elak menne hdiyye
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Old 12-25-2009   #33
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ok now I have a question for christians, things I do not understand

you do know the earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago

so why do you keep repeating bi kanoun el iman "نزل من السماء, وتجسّد من الروح القدس" and later "صعد الى السماء" when it does not exist
and no the sky is not the same word for heaven, look up the word sama2 in the arabic wikipedia it will tell you that this refers to an acient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth, that turns dark at night

question 2: is adam and eve story real?
if it is real then God created adam and eve about 6000 years after agriculture was invented, and adam and eve populated the planet
if it is not real then the original sin does not exist and jesus had no reason to die, or to come to earth in the first place
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Old 12-25-2009   #34
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ok now I have a question for christians, things I do not understand

you do know the earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago

so why do you keep repeating bi kanoun el iman "نزل من السماء, وتجسّد من الروح القدس" and later "صعد الى السماء" when it does not exist
and no the sky is not the same word for heaven, look up the word sama2 in the arabic wikipedia it will tell you that this refers to an acient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth, that turns dark at night
I don't want to get into a debate or anything. But the ancient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth and its relation to the word does not mean that this is what christians or muslims believe. You use the same word, does it mean that this is what you believe??

We use the word to describe space, as it has been repeated in the Coran السماوات السبع.

It does not mean that we believe that the sky has boundaries.

from wikipedia:

المعتقد القديم عن السماء

كان المعتقد القديم عن السماء بانها غلاف أو سقف للارض لونها ازرق واذا جاء الليل يكون لونها اسود .. وكان المعتقد أيضا ان السماء شي ملموس ، كالسقف مثلا يمكن لمسه للصاعد اليها


This does not say anything about when it was believed so or who believed so, not to mention that if christians believed so or not.




السماء في المعتقدات

ذكر كلمة السماء في القرآن في أكثر من موضع وفي أكثر من مره واكثر من ايه وسوره ، وكان يشار اما لرمز للسماء كرمز وليس للشي ملموس أو كان يشار إلى الغلاف الجوي على أساس انه هو السماء ، لان السماء تعني سقف والغلاف الجوي هو بمثابه سقف شفاف للارض .


Shou lli byemna3 eno this was referred to in the bible as it was in the Coran?
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Old 12-25-2009   #35
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I was just in church beavis, it is not only repeated in the bible, but in the prayers, the word sky comes up many times
and they also say
"نرفع اليك صلواتنا" indicating direction, the sky and the being physicly above thingy is a real serious belief
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Old 12-25-2009   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j View Post
ok now I have a question for christians, things I do not understand

you do know the earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago

so why do you keep repeating bi kanoun el iman "نزل من السماء, وتجسّد من الروح القدس" and later "صعد الى السماء" when it does not exist
and no the sky is not the same word for heaven, look up the word sama2 in the arabic wikipedia it will tell you that this refers to an acient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth, that turns dark at night

question 2: is adam and eve story real?
if it is real then God created adam and eve about 6000 years after agriculture was invented, and adam and eve populated the planet
if it is not real then the original sin does not exist and jesus had no reason to die, or to come to earth in the first place
I know some guys who are christians and they don't believe that "earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago".
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Old 12-25-2009   #37
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Originally Posted by mr_j View Post
I was just in church beavis, it is not only repeated in the bible, but in the prayers, the word sky comes up many times
and they also say
"نرفع اليك صلواتنا" indicating direction, the sky and the being physicly above thingy is a real serious belief
Eh 3ala rase...this does not mean that they're saying that the earth is flat or that the sky is limited.

Yes it can mean crossing the sky into the heavens. W ba3den?

edit: Heaven is said to be beyond all our skies, which means that space lies between us and heaven. kamen wein l meshekle?

It can also be taken metaphorically to indicate stature at the same time. We are lowly humans, and you God reside above, you look down upon us. edit: Heaven can be in another universe 7atta...w kamen wein l meshekle if it's taken metaphorically?

This thread is about 2osool l deen and we are here to learn ( and if you want to...then debate) the very foundations of religion and judge that religion according to its very foundations. Not according to what the vatican or maraje3 do. Not because of history. Not because of whatever it is you want to attack.

This is called structuralism. If you want to debate religion you consider its very foundations. This is what we are trying to accomplish by learning about the basics of christianity and Islam.Any debate that jumps past those basics to attack the religion is simply futile.

You go through the basics, then when you're done with them tfaddal e7ke lli baddak yyeh.

edit: w law elna heaven is above the clouds enta 3lek temro2 bi osool l din w ba3den ta3a 7asebne ana shou 3am be7ke w shou 3am bashir. If my Basics are logical and what i preach is right according to my basics then ma elak 3layye, w ma fik te7kine wala kelme. Kermel hek ejbare temro2 bel 2osool abel ma tfoot bel tafasil.

edit: Again...baddak te2na3ne eno my or their religion is wrong? that what they're preaching or what we're preaching is wrong and downright stupid?? You are going to have to debate us all bel basics.


Tfaddal eza baddak ma 7ada men3ak.
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Last edited by Jess; 12-26-2009 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 01-12-2010   #38
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tab eno be7yetkon wlo someone answer me regarding what Tawa said ba2a
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Old 01-13-2010   #39
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What tawa Said?! ma ele jlede to read again the whole thread :P post ur question kindly
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Old 01-13-2010   #40
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Very good thread, knowledge about different religions never hurts anyone.

About Christianity, and Theologically speaking, I can give you information about the Church's Social Education.

The Social Doctrine of the Church is based on the truth that God created the humans on his own image (خُلق البشر على صورة الله ومثاله).
Based on that, the Social Doctrine of the Church came out with 4 principles, and 4 values.

The 4 principles are:
1- The Personal-ism principle.
2- The Common Good principle.
3- The Subsidiarity principle.
4- The Solidarity principle.

The 4 values are:
1- The Value of Truth
2- The Value of Liberty
3- The Value of Justice
4- The Value of Charity

The 4 Principles and Values combined together can lead us towards much more better societies and a better inter-human relationships.
This is a very short summary about the Social Doctrine of the Church. It will give you a good idea, I can get you more information later on.
I'd like this explained please What does each principle hold??
w Tawa you promised more information wein saro
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Last edited by Kain; 01-13-2010 at 04:23 PM.
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