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Old 01-16-2010   #11
Adam
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Originally Posted by RUSSIAN View Post
honestly, I think he doesn't exist, but it's not a good idea to tell that he is evil. It can insult those who believe.
Respect my belief and I'll respect yours.
Think of how much less "evil" there would be in this world if more people thought like that.


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Old 01-16-2010   #12
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Let me ask you something. what would it take an atheist to believe?
You want it to rain ketchup, fine, let's say tomorrow it will rain ketchup. Would that be enough proof for you to believe that God exists? No, it wouldn't be for me either. I would, just like you, try and find a logical explanation for it.
of course I would try to find alogical explanation, that is what scientists do
have you ever seen a doctor on TV being asked "where does cancer come from" and he replied"well it comes from God" ??
no, such an answer would be a last resort. but a real miracle, something that all scientists would agree on being impossible, such as raining ketshup or an amputee regrowing a body part(that requires a good documentation not just a book issued by te catholic church(I'm not too impressed with the documentations of jesus)) I would believe yes. so far I have seen nothing

and why assume that Iwouldn't believe if I saw something? and to christians(who read the bible) thomas who lived with jesus and saw his miracles still doubted him and his resurection, and he said the only way he would believe is if Jesus appeared in front of him and let him touch his wounds
how come Jesus didn't say"ah screw him, he's just gonna come up with a logical excuse no matter what I do"

these are excuses that I keep hearing from believers, not only are they things that are not said in the holy books, but often excuses that even contradict what is said and what happened in the book
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Last edited by mr_j; 01-16-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 01-17-2010   #13
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undeniable truth: God is evil .. according to that interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twSN...layer_embedded

Last edited by JouJoulika; 01-17-2010 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 01-17-2010   #14
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Originally Posted by mr_j View Post
of course I would try to find alogical explanation, that is what scientists do
have you ever seen a doctor on TV being asked "where does cancer come from" and he replied"well it comes from God" ??
no, such an answer would be a last resort. but a real miracle, something that all scientists would agree on being impossible, such as raining ketshup or an amputee regrowing a body part(that requires a good documentation not just a book issued by te catholic church(I'm not too impressed with the documentations of jesus)) I would believe yes. so far I have seen nothing

and why assume that Iwouldn't believe if I saw something? and to christians(who read the bible) thomas who lived with jesus and saw his miracles still doubted him and his resurection, and he said the only way he would believe is if Jesus appeared in front of him and let him touch his wounds
how come Jesus didn't say"ah screw him, he's just gonna come up with a logical excuse no matter what I do"

these are excuses that I keep hearing from believers, not only are they things that are not said in the holy books, but often excuses that even contradict what is said and what happened in the book
man u are brainwashed by science, u know that science cannot explain everything in life
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Old 01-17-2010   #15
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well after all the disappointments of religion, can you really blame me?

think of how it begins when you're a kid, everything in life is a mystery to you. where do kids come from? well they came fom God
how did humans exist? the adam and eve story
then they teach you about the bible and the kuraan, they leave out the details on how much we can trust these books and what their references are, so you are left to take for granted that they are solid and unshakable. they tell you God is watching and taking care of you... and you're never alone

then you grow up and little by little you start discovering that what you have been learning are lies. humans are not much better than the animals, we have sex to procreate like they do, we need to eat hunt and kill, we're not that special
then genetics discovered we share 99.5% genes with the great ape, so byebye to "God created man on his image" the bible and the kuraan are not about God, they are about 2 men, Jesus and Mohammad, who spoke about God, I'm sorry but why do we believe them?
then bad stuff start happening to you, and despite all that, as a believer, you make up excuses to go on

one disappointment after another, I couldn't keep making up excuses. at some point I just came to see that the whole religious logic is messed up
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Old 01-17-2010   #16
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Originally Posted by The Legend Killer View Post
man u are brainwashed by science, u know that science cannot explain everything in life
Not only is science incapable of explaining everything but trying to debate the existence of God through science is downright pointless...w hay kermel ma 2ool kelme tenye...

I mean how can you prove or disprove the existence of a supernatural being that is not made out of matter through science, which limited to the world of matter and is limited to trial and error. There is a hypothesis and there are experiments carried out to prove that hypothesis.
Not only that but though that hypothesis may be true based on the experiment or method carried out but another and better method may come along to disprove that which has been considered as true. Science is highly unstable and can only help men shape their world.

It is completely useless in metaphysical matters. This is where you need philosophy to debate religion.

wake up ba2a. ( ma azde enta dabbouké )

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Originally Posted by mr_j View Post
then they teach you about the bible and the kuraan, they leave out the details on how much we can trust these books and what their references are
you know bel 7awze l 3elmiyye they have a saying:

نحن أبناء الدليل, أينما ذهب نذهب

( i believe this is the saying)
Nothing is taken for granted. The first thing that is debated is the existence of God and the reliability of the Coran.

p.s: l 7awze is where shia go to become sheikhs.


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Originally Posted by mr_j
then genetics discovered we share 99.5% genes with the great ape, so byebye to "God created man on his image"
Similarity does not mean that we are descendants of apes. That is yet to be proven. That remains to be a theory. There are others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j
the bible and the kuraan are not about God
Now you're talking gibberish...3anjad ma tkharrif w te7ke men 3endak. I haven't read the bible but i'm damn sure that you haven't read the Coran to talk.

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Originally Posted by mr_j
they are about 2 men, Jesus and Mohammad, who spoke about God, I'm sorry but why do we believe them?
The Kuraan is about God, creation, the stories of his prophets, and about legislations that man would need.

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Originally Posted by mr_j
then bad stuff start happening to you, and despite all that, as a believer, you make up excuses to go on
I see no problem in these "excuses".

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Originally Posted by mr_j
one disappointment after another, I couldn't keep making up excuses. at some point I just came to see that the whole religious logic is messed up
the religious logic is just fine. It was your logic and interpretation that are messed up which can be clearly seen through your attempt to debate God's existence through science.
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Last edited by Kain; 01-17-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 01-18-2010   #17
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Similarity does not mean that we are descendants of apes. That is yet to be proven. That remains to be a theory. There are others.
I'm not talking or referign to evolution. I am stating a fact, the old testament says God created man on his image, did he do the same for the ape?

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I see no problem in these "excuses".
I do

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that is very mature

God is a scientific hypothesis, he's not even a theory. God is one of many explanations of how the universe came to be

God never wrote anything, people wrote the stories, you put too much faith in what these certain people say
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Old 01-18-2010   #18
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Originally Posted by mr_j View Post
I'm not talking or referign to evolution. I am stating a fact, the old testament says God created man on his image, did he do the same for the ape?
eza la hon badak twassil betrok l mawdoo3 la jame3et l old testament yreddo ana ma khasne


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j
I do
Let me rephrase that. What you call excuses are what keep other people going through everyday life.
from a scientific point of view, psychological that is, Religion can help people cope with life and lessen their burdens. I forgot the term but let's call it "masabb" positif.


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Originally Posted by mr_j
that is very mature
hal2ad 2ahritak?
I didn't agree with you and i liked to express it through a groan

Maturity has nothing to do with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j
God is a scientific hypothesis
No science has nothing to do with it. God is not matter la ykoon a scientific hypothesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j
he's not even a theory.
right. He's a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_j
God is one of many explanations of how the universe came to be
No God is the creator of the universe w gher hek ento ma be2e 3endkon 7ejje Science cannot go there. This is purely a philosophical matter. So unless you know something about philosophy don't go any deeper w tbahdil 7alak ba3ed bhal tekhrif.

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Originally Posted by mr_j
God never wrote anything, people wrote the stories,you put too much faith in what these certain people say
My faith is based on doubtful questioning and reason. If i believe in what these "certain people" say it's because they have come into question. Which is really more than i can say about you when i find that you blurt out anything sometimes for the sole purpose of attacking religion.

Hal2ad 2ahrinak ?
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