Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

"When somebody dies, we ought to show a measure of respect and appreciation for them and the ones grieving for them regardless if we agreed with them or not"

This statement was said in a talk show when another person was harshly criticizing a politician who has just died.

Do you that when a person dies he should not be criticized harshly for his actions during his lifetime? Do you think that it is an obligation to say that you are sorry for his death even if you actually are not?

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Hell no!! I don't believe in that!! If that man was a political tyrant when he was alive then that does not changed after he is dead!!
Saddam Hussein or any other tyrant are the same as any other lebanese MP looking for their own personal interest or filling their own pocket.

Dead or Alive, that person reaped the bounty of his actions.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I second Kain...death shouldnt erase anyones infamy.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Well I will raise the bar here because I meant something that might be more controversial than Saddam who was given as an example...

We saw in Lebanon many assassinations of political figures, if you read some article by a journalist the second day after the assassination of one of these political figures where he harshly criticizes the newly deceased person and says something like, "I might be sad for what might happen to Lebanon but not for the death of that person." Would you tolerate that or do you think it is going too far?

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I was only giving an example of saddam:) Yes i would surely tolerate that. If he hated that person when he was alive then death shouldn't make any difference.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I disagree with Kain and his supporters:P...

where's the dead's respect gone? alright that "person" did bad things, said bad stuff, and took the bad side... at least, show some respect when u wanna disrepesct a dead man... for e.g: instead of bashing him just say he was a bad person as maximum... w the end, u prooved ur point ma daroure tenshor 3ardo bel tali3 w bel nezil if he's dead lol...

if he was alive, bash the hell of him I dont care:W

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

The dude just got what we had coming. If he did bad things it doesn't mean his record is cleared when he's dead. I don't get where this " respect the dead" thing came from. The man did bad things when he was alive, why should i respect him when he's dead??? He's burning in hell either way:p
He will be remembered for his actions when he was alive, that is the reputation he made for himself and that's what he's worth. Why should i respect him for not being amongst the living anymore?

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I not only agree with Kain but also think that this "respect the dead" may create false idols and heroes...It is our duty to tell the people what the dead man's life was like instead of letting them fall into assuming he left a great legacy( which will happen if they will only listen to positive stuff about him)...

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

u said it urself, he'll be burning in hell anyway, u wanna burn his ass too on earth lool? he will be remembered for his actions, u will say he was bad, ma daroure tnazil el debben el zere2 3al se7a kermelo :P

Athegan, let's talk about families, we all die eventually right? do u accept the fact someone talking about ur dead father (men gher el shar, its just an e.g.) even if ur dad was the one behind that fault? where's the respect for the family? eza ana kenet madroub ma darure tkun marte w wlede madroubin, w ma beftekir byet7e2o yesma3o hek 7ake 3an bayyon law shu ma ken 3amil... u talk about what he did , you talk about FACTS!!! u do not bash!! got my point??

All ppl who die, they have a sense of respect layed out for 'em, this respect walks on a red carpet & drives luxury cars n bla bla bla.... why do u honor a dead person? cuz he was gd? just honor him when he is alive if he was gd... if he was bad, men sebbelo lol, but eventually, the deads are deads weither they were gd or bad...

the bottom line is this, if someone comes & says that how bad/gr8 this person was, ask him/her in front of everyone if this person knew that u thought of him/her this way when he/she was alive... so basically long story short, bash & respect a person when he is alive, when he dies, talk about what he did, but do not bash him, cuz 3am testa2we 3a mayyit :S

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Okay two points should be pointed out here to you Sheriff:

1- In some cases,at least the one I am thinking off, the facts are offensive enough. When I say bash him or attack him, I mean attack his actions, the kinda legacy he left behind.

2- Mesh 3am besta2we 3ala mayyet. But the point of legacy is so important, someone's actions don't die out with him. Ten years or maybe twenty after the guy's death, a person who was a teenager when the assassination happened will grow up to be a politician and might place that deceased guy as his idol. If his actions were destructive or at least a form of disservice for the country, this should be pointed out,harshly enough for the message to get through despite of the fact that he died, it is his line of action and the future generations that might follow such actions that I am concerned about.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

What he said:p........

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

No one wastes goodbyes on dead politicians

let me give u an e.g: Living poets always respect Dead poets... alright? but living politicians turn Dead politicians into scapegoats, deserved or not... which means, u wanna be a politician u will be absolutely criticised... ever heard of a politician loved by the whole lebanese ppl??? 2ein2ein... the difference in here is the way u see that politician let's take some e.g:

SHN, some say he is political more than he is a prophet.. others says its vice versa... he won against Israel, others said he didnt and some said he did & both of these opinions were took by witnesses, they lived the situation but through different views... so u see, men gher el shar lamma yetwafa el zalame, he will be criticised for his actions... my questions goes for Kain, do u accept the fact someone criticise SHN after his death? if so, why? u know he's popular but some lebanese do not like him (im not one of them)... some will criticise him & say he brought war, huwe el sabab la 7atta ddammar el ektisad nihe2iyan... so u see, he will be criticised but NOT BASHED!!... fi fare2:), fare2 ben lamma totla3 tehki now on TV w t2oul inta sewet wa7ad tnen tlete... w fare2 ben lamma yetwaffa w yotla3 hadan y2ul "meshekle w 5losna menna, bel na2is wa7ad, 5ay met ma sadda2na kif 5losna menno..." do u accept the fact someone who talks like this??

I reformulate it again athegan, you and I can have different views on the same person, u can look at one situation through 2 different rearviews... this doesnt give u & I the right to bash this guy when he is dead...

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

He is already being bashed for that. Let them do what they want. I know i'm upholding justice and they're not. In any case, it all goes back to freedom of speech. If they died bashing those who served justice 7sebon 3and Allah.
I may not like it but they'll do it anyway w again...7sebon 3and Allah.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

u said it urself, u do not like it.. u may not express ur feelings towards what they say but some ppl might lose control w ykasroulo rasso la yalli bye7e 3ano hek (for e.g. a family member or an HA supporter)... so u see, its not about freedom of speech, fi limits la kel shi... we call it RESPECT:)

if u wanna disrespect someone, let it be when he is alive, kun rejjel w oul eddemo:P... even though i hate the whole disrespect issue.. but I take it as this: "I dont like to be disrespected after my death, w yalli ma be2balo 3a 7ale ma be2balo 3a ghayre law add ma ken mejrim"... u said 7sebo 3and ALLAH!!... so why bashing him??? bel niheye 7sebo 3and ALLAH :D

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

It's relative. Goes back to how different people think different things. He's not demanding their respect. Bas if they're blind to justice it's their problem.
Let them go ahead and say what they want:) i may not like it but i've heard it tons of times and i have learned to be careless of such things:)
I know that i'm following the righteous path by supporting Hezbollah and SHN.
7sebon 3and rabbon w 7sebe 3and rabbe:)
That's all i have to say on the matter and i'm sticking to that conviction.

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Mesh 2osset sabb!! 2osset enno eza hayda l ensen zalamne he deserved what he had coming!! he will be judged by his actions. W that's that.
Same way Walid Eido is judged by his famous " baddna nbi3 dammna la neshtere sle7 w la nemna3on men enno yesta2wo 3layna" ( or something like that )
Same way Rafic l Hariri is remembered for the solidaire scandals and the sudden increase in what he had in his bank account ( by 10 billion dollars).
Same way bashar and 7afez l Assad will always be hated and bashed by the lebanese families they have wronged and by the families of the prisoners in syria, same goes to Yasser Arafat.
Zalamo 3alam w ba3don l 3alam 3am bi 3ano la halla2 men hal zolom. El 3alam ela 7a22 te7ke 3a yalli zalama law 3ayish aw mayyit!!!
If someone robbed my house and i found out who he is after he died i'm supposed to keep quiet because he has a family or let alone RESPECT him??? I don't care who he is!! HE WRONGED ME and messed with my livelihood and my life's stability. That's what it comes down to!

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

First of all, I don't care whether others agree with my criticism of whoever is the deceased and frankly don't care if they are offended..I have stated it and will state it again, freedom of expression is the most sacred doctrine I behold for any system,once that is compromised everything follows. When you attack someone with words and he/she responds with some psychotic chaotic behavior it is not your fault, it is theirs. They apparently hold weak indefensable positions which can only be protected by violence.

e.g I respect SHN a lot and wasn't happy when basmet watan ridiculed him but I would gladly have died defending their right to express their view in any peaceful way they see appropriate. If they do it again after his death, I would be more than unhappy, but it is their right to express their view. The sooner Lebanese ppl accept these notions the sooner they will learn to be more honest with each other and understand each other instead of hiding behind sacred walls and red lines. Nothing is above criticism and argument between partners of the same nation, even dead "heroes" and "symbols of sects"

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I support what u said except

I understand what you mean and back then i didn't understand what the protest was all about but soon enough i found out that it was in violation of the law concerning " al e3lan l mar2i wal masmoo3"...not sure about the details though:)

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

If that is true,first I am with changing that law.

Second, wasn't it always their method to ridicule all politicians. I remember they even ridiculed one dead christian politician where he appeared as if in black and white(forgot who he was though). Why didn't anyone ever mention this law before?

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

I disagree wiz Kain also :) eno whatever the person did, we should show him a complete respect when he dies......

We do not have the complete right to judge him! its not our job to judge him...

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

If he was an influential person who affected our life, it is not only our right, it is our duty to do that...

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...
 

Re: Speaking Ill of the Dead...