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No amount of reading can probably give me some of the info i need. Which is why i decided to open this thread.
First of all i just want to make it clear. This thread is not directed towards anyone. This thread is to be kept for learning and inquiries only, since what is to be discussed is sensitive to many if not most members and guests.

Anyone to participate in this thread should be as serious as possible when addressing the other about his ideas. Ma baddna 7ada yoghlat b7a2 l tene:p

I want to learn about the basics of christian religion, not historically but theologically, hence the title. What do you guys believe in exactly ( akid we all know that but i want to go further into the details), and why do you believe in that?
Also if possible I would like some info on the different theologies that christian sects adopt. What's the difference between these sects?

P.S: Of course this thread won't be confined to christianity. If any of you have questions about the theological basics of Islam i will try my best to give the info you want.

I'll answer based on my own understanding to Christianity and based on what i've learned in school during the periods of "Religion".

Thank you for a great reply. It really summed it up. But of course since this is an introduction i expect to see the rest tomorrow:p or as soon as possible :p

I don't only want to look for differences between our religions, I want to know about your religion as a whole. This thread is so that we can start from the very basic things and move up to the details.

I want to know about the basic chrisitian ideology and on what it stands, it seems you got my question since you answered about the saint trinity. So i'm awaiting the rest as soon as possible:).

Thank you!!

1- let me start by the Holy Trinity explanation.

Kain, get the Bible and read it man, it will take you few days, it's easy Arabic not like Koran. it's all based on small stories / examples and miracles.

The good side of Christianity is that it praises Love, how true and how much applied these are is a story by itself.

Hehehe ma ken badde enfaham ghalat.
I'm not looking for basic knowledge on christianity. I want to go into the details. I want to get the deep ideological information that you guys can help provide and not the superficial information that everyone knows. I already planned to start reading the bible once i finish the book i'm reading now:p..But that can only take me so far ideologically and historically.

Many people have read the bible before and interpreted it 3a zaw2on. I'm in no position to do that. Which is why i need to know about christian ideology in order to truly grasp what Christians believe in. History cannot give me that.

w ma 7ada yefhamne ghalat i haven't been living in a bubble all my life :p bas I want to get to the details and go further.

And i really want to thank all of you for taking the time for providing me and others with this info.

I'm at work now i can't reply to you guys because i can't concentrate:p once i'll get home it's the first thing i'll get to:p

@hala: yes it was very helpful :) ra7 tezha2e menne 2ad ma 7a es2alik as2ila :p

@marwan: question edited: How does christianity view creation? why were we created?

@anyone who can answer me: What is your view on heaven and hell ( not who goes there, but why do they go there?). What must a person do to get into heaven and what does he do to deserve to go to hell?

I would like to go into the details of the notion: Jesus died for our sins. Could you please explain it for me?

@ Tawa: I realize i could use google to look for the explanations and ideological value of what you just posted. But could you possibly explain them for us here? ( kermel l kell yestafeed).

Thank you

( 7ases 7ale metel abousoun bhal threadlool)

about confession: Why do some christian sects believe that confession is necessary and others don't?
How did the idea of confession start? If there is a reference in the bible to confession could you cite it for me ? 3am 3azzbik ma3e :$

no, the 10 commandments were done after jesus came
it is written somewhere that jesus said that he is here to end these commandmends and give a new order

Quote:

قد سمعتم أنه قيل للقدماء. لا تزن. وأما انا فأقول لكم إن كل من ينظر إلي امرأة ليشتهيها فقد زني بها في قلبه" (مت 5: 27, 28).

Quote:

واما انا فاقول لكم ان كل من يغضب على اخيه باطلا يكون مستوجب الحكم.ومن قال لاخيه رقا يكون مستوجب المجمع.ومن قال يا احمق يكون مستوجب نار جهنم انجيل متى 22 .

about the second one, I wish I can find the full text, before he says "w amma ana" he was talking about that in the old days people were simply told do not kill, so he continues the sentence with but I say to you...

the 10 commandments are not really the basis of christianity, if you read the bible and follow the catholic church, masturbation is a sin, dressing inappropriatly is a sin, having dirty thoughts is a sin etc...
but who is following that right?

and heaven is described in "rou2ya you7anna" that text is particularly hard to read so not many actualy tried to read it, but the first 3 chapters are relatvly easy, they described "orachalim el samawiya" which is what I think is heaven :p it says for example that it is always day there because God lights it up, and he describes the city and etc...

GR8 Topic guyz! really got known better to Christianity!

I got a small question:
Can anyone explain to me the story of Mary magdalen?

well jesus as mentioned in the bible ( ill search for the reference later ) did not came to end the 10 commandmends but rather to give them a new meaning and a more new horizon and aspect wich is the aspect of love :
jesus added 2 more :
احبب الرب الاهك من كل عقلك و من كل نفسك و من كل قلبك و احبب قريبك حبك لنفسك !
and in another place ( while talking about al chari3a )jesus says:
انا لم اتي لانقض بل لاكمل !
and this is what the juis didnt understand ( gheyr 3an ktir 2osas )
and to add on this : bi masal el chab el ghani when the rich guy ask jesus for God's kingdom jesus ask him to act according to 10 commandments and when the rich guy told him that he has already done that. here jesus asked him to leave everything, give it to the poor and follow him ( --> to actualy exercice the love to all human kind and to give everything to them and also to give no importance to material belongings and rely totaly on God's grace )

hope this will clear a bit some ideas.

yeah ok, but my point is the 10 commandments are not our basics anymore since jesus gave more
but you don't see the church emphasizing much on these teachings that jesus said

in fact most of the stories we hear in church are about the miracles jesus did, how he was born, how he got lost in the temple etc... happy stuff

Ok i'm back with more questions:

1- If anyone could give me more info on this then i would be very greatful

2- What is earth? what are we doing here ? why were we created? what's the point? ( no not your own personal philosophy...i want to know what christianity has to say on the matter)

i just read the post & well the info provided by the guys is awesome, i dnt think i have anythn more 2 add.
bass i d like to know better about zekra 3achoura, if its okey:D
coz lyoum rehet 3al jem3a as everyday w i was feelin the christmas jolly & wearin a red shirt fa i ran into alot of ppll wearing black fa 7essayt 7alleeee KTTTTIIIIIIRRRRR misplaced. so l zekra balachit w kam nhar w what is it exactly all the details concerning it.
thanks in advance

yeah thats the story I asked my uncle ( 3am bya3mel khoureh :D)

check this link here

(long read)

3ashoura2 owes its name to the fact that its events occured on muharram 10th..عاشر---> عاشوراء

Ideologically speaking...alot can be said about 3ashoura2...such as the fact that it is what allowed shia to live on to this day...and what allowed our beloved religion to live on to this day...as imam khumayni said : "كل ما لدينا هو من عاشوراء" ( hayda l mokhtasar l moufid)

Historically speaking. It goes back to the pact that was arranged between el imam Al Hassan (3alayhi l salam) and mo3awiya....who agreed that the successor after mo3awiya's death is to be el imam al hussein (3s). Mo3awiya however plotted with the imam's wife and poisoned him. And left his son yazeed as successor.

Yazeed was a brutal man, a drunk, who only cared for the pleasures that his power brought and wanted Hussein (3s) to accept him as ruler of Islam. The imam refused and rode to battle with 73 of his companions, along with his family and theirs to Karbala. They were supposed to be backed up by thousands of men from Koufa, they even wrote him letters begging him to come and saying that they will give their lives in his service.

These men were however given titles and lands by yazeed, and were threatened that he would send his army their way. If anything they outnumbered yazeed's army but were frightened by mere claims.

So these men who numbered by the thousands eventually turned on el imam l hussein (3s). And on the 10th of muharram year 61 of hijra....73 men against an army of thousands...they met their death. Even Imam's hussein baby Abdallah received an arrow to his throat, and twitched and met his death in his father's hands.

They were suffering from thirst so Aba l fadl al 3abbas...the imam's brother volunteered to get water for them all. He was pursued by the army on his way back and tried to fight them off. His hands were both cut off. Then the pouch carrying the water was pierced by an arrow ( intentionally of course...those arabs were great marksmen), he also received an arrow in one of his eyes, both his legs were then cut off which caused him to fall off his horse. The imam Son Ali al akbar ( who held a striking resemblance to the prophet) met a similar horrifying death with all his limbs amputated.

This was in no way political. These are the prophet's children and were killed for being the sons of Ali ben abi taleb and his shia, this is confirmed by what Yazeed and his followers said.
The imam was the last man standing. After suffering many wounds he could no longer fight. Shemer ben jawshan lay upon him and slowly sliced his throat and beheaded him. His head was later put on a spear and given to yazeed as a trophy.
edit: As to the imam...Islam could not be ruled by such an incompetent drunk who only cared for women, abusing power, and getting drunk. To the imam this was about preserving Islam as the prophet preached it. Which is why had it not been for the imam's revolution, we would have nothing today. It is thanks to 3ashoura and its morals and lessons that we have our ideology, and we are always reminded to stand up for what is right and die fighting for what we believe in. This is embedded deep within Hezbollah's creed, and the reason behind Hezbollah's success.


No one was spared, even the women were constantly beaten and taken as prisoners, the imam's daughter sukayna eventually died of thirst.

The imam's son and his successor as imam, Ali zayn l 3abideen survived however, he was too ill and was unable to fight, he was taken as a prisoner. He later exposed yazeed.


As to the link that TLK posted: what the hell??

No no no no no :p!
1-He asked about 3ashoura as a whole concept...the page you posted shows the importance of fasting during 3ashoura :Tawa:
2-We don't fast el yom el 3asher :Tawa:

No he actually posted what the sunnis say about 3ashoura....as in why it was named that way.

Thanks so much for the useful information Kain, I would like to ask you another question, I heard once a story about some person and a ring. And there was mou3awiya who ploted to remove 2al 2imamou 3ali from el 5ilafa. and there are some quotes from this "أنزع علي من الخلافة كما أنزع هذا الخاتم وأثبت معاوية في الخلافة كما أثبت هذا الخاتم في إصبعي"
Can you please write a lil bit about it, I'm very interested in the Islamic religion as well?

Thanks :)

It all goes back to when 3othman...the 3rd caliph was assassinated. His cousin Mo3awiya ( who was assigned as ruler of bilad al sham) hung his bloody shirt to remind people of that the imam "does not want to pursue Othman's killers". men ekhera ken bado ya3mil fetne...He does not want Ali as Caliph, but wanted the power all to himself.

As to why othman was killed, simply because he was corrupt, and both sunni and shii references bear witness to that. He gave alot of the state's money to his own tribe and kept it from others, and he abused his power.

Moawiya refused to accept the imam as the ruler of Islam, it was only a matter of time before war broke out. It was at the battle of saffin when it happened. Moawiya was about to be vanquished when 3amro ebn l 3as told him to raise the Corans up on the spears and call for a "ta7keem". They shouted calling for it, and some people who were allied to othman in the imam's army also called for it.


وهكذا التحم الجيشان ، وعندما لاحت تباشير النصر لصالح جيش الإمام عليه السلام ، دبر معاوية " خدعة المصاحف " ، فأمر جنوده برفع المصاحف على رؤوس الرماح والسيوف ، ومع أن الإمام تصدى لكشف هذه المؤامرة التي يراد بها عرقلة النصر الذي كان وشيكا لصالح جيش الإمام علي عليه السلام ،

source : click here


وقد تمثلت هذه الحيلة في تمزيق المصحف ورفع أوراقه على أسنة الرماح أمام جنود الإمام والمطالبة بتحكيمه في الصراع الدائر بينهما . . يقول ابن العاص : فإن أبى بعضهم أن يقبلها وجدت فيهم من يقول ينبغي لنا أن نقبل فتكون فرقة بينهم . وإن قبلوا ما فيها رفعنا القتال عنا إلى أجل . . ( 23 ) .

thanks for the info it really helped
like 6 years ago at school we watched a movie about the beginning of islam bass ma rakazt ktir 3lei wa2ta (i was still young) bass i forgot the name. its a 4 hours movie w it also shows the fight 3al 3achoura2. if u know the name of it or u actually have it i d appreciate if u d upload it
thanks

No i don't know about it:( sorry...If there is ever a vcoderz meeting that you'll attend i'll make sure to send a movie about 3ashoura2 your way though :)

im sensing a negative sarcastic remark about me not attending any of the meetings :P
khalass next time bta3emlo chi ill try my best (unless its an athletic event):P

nooo noo noolool ma tkhaflool i only get sarcastic when the one debating me keeps going around the point instead of attacking the subject head onlool...ya3ne eza jeye ysheri3 la ysheri3:p

kent 3am be7ke jadd:p mayyellak 3a shi meeting w elak menne hdiyye :p

ok now I have a question for christians, things I do not understand

you do know the earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago

so why do you keep repeating bi kanoun el iman "نزل من السماء, وتجسّد من الروح القدس" and later "صعد الى السماء" when it does not exist
and no the sky is not the same word for heaven, look up the word sama2 in the arabic wikipedia it will tell you that this refers to an acient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth, that turns dark at night

question 2: is adam and eve story real?
if it is real then God created adam and eve about 6000 years after agriculture was invented, and adam and eve populated the planet
if it is not real then the original sin does not exist and jesus had no reason to die, or to come to earth in the first place

I don't want to get into a debate or anything. But the ancient belief that there is a blue sheet covering the earth and its relation to the word does not mean that this is what christians or muslims believe. You use the same word, does it mean that this is what you believe??

We use the word to describe space, as it has been repeated in the Coran السماوات السبع.

It does not mean that we believe that the sky has boundaries.

from wikipedia:

المعتقد القديم عن السماء

كان المعتقد القديم عن السماء بانها غلاف أو سقف للارض لونها ازرق واذا جاء الليل يكون لونها اسود .. وكان المعتقد أيضا ان السماء شي ملموس ، كالسقف مثلا يمكن لمسه للصاعد اليها


This does not say anything about when it was believed so or who believed so, not to mention that if christians believed so or not.




السماء في المعتقدات

ذكر كلمة السماء في القرآن في أكثر من موضع وفي أكثر من مره واكثر من ايه وسوره ، وكان يشار اما لرمز للسماء كرمز وليس للشي ملموس أو كان يشار إلى الغلاف الجوي على أساس انه هو السماء ، لان السماء تعني سقف والغلاف الجوي هو بمثابه سقف شفاف للارض .


Shou lli byemna3 eno this was referred to in the bible as it was in the Coran?

I was just in church beavis, it is not only repeated in the bible, but in the prayers, the word sky comes up many times
and they also say
"نرفع اليك صلواتنا" indicating direction, the sky and the being physicly above thingy is a real serious belief

I know some guys who are christians and they don't believe that "earth is round and it rotates around the sun, and that the blue thingy we see up there is just the atmosphere and not the sky as it was believed 2000 years ago".

Eh 3ala rase...this does not mean that they're saying that the earth is flat or that the sky is limited.

Yes it can mean crossing the sky into the heavens. W ba3den?

edit: Heaven is said to be beyond all our skies, which means that space lies between us and heaven. kamen wein l meshekle?

It can also be taken metaphorically to indicate stature at the same time. We are lowly humans, and you God reside above, you look down upon us. edit: Heaven can be in another universe 7atta...w kamen wein l meshekle if it's taken metaphorically?

This thread is about 2osool l deen and we are here to learn ( and if you want to...then debate) the very foundations of religion and judge that religion according to its very foundations. Not according to what the vatican or maraje3 do. Not because of history. Not because of whatever it is you want to attack.

This is called structuralism. If you want to debate religion you consider its very foundations. This is what we are trying to accomplish by learning about the basics of christianity and Islam.Any debate that jumps past those basics to attack the religion is simply futile.

You go through the basics, then when you're done with them tfaddal e7ke lli baddak yyeh.

edit: w law elna heaven is above the clouds enta 3lek temro2 bi osool l din w ba3den ta3a 7asebne ana shou 3am be7ke w shou 3am bashir. If my Basics are logical and what i preach is right according to my basics then ma elak 3layye, w ma fik te7kine wala kelme. Kermel hek ejbare temro2 bel 2osool abel ma tfoot bel tafasil.

edit: Again...baddak te2na3ne eno my or their religion is wrong? that what they're preaching or what we're preaching is wrong and downright stupid?? You are going to have to debate us all bel basics.


Tfaddal eza baddak ma 7ada men3ak.

tab eno be7yetkon wlo:p someone answer me regarding what Tawa said ba2a:p

What tawa Said?! ma ele jlede to read again the whole thread :P post ur question kindly

I'd like this explained please:p What does each principle hold??
w Tawa you promised more information wein saro:Tawa::(