Good or Bad?
 

Jean Jacques Rousseau said :"L'homme est bon par nature, c'est la société qui l'a corrompu", roughly translated it means humans are good by nature, it is the society that corrupted them.

I believe that Rousseau is right, if we look at a young baby he is so pure so tender without any cruelty in him, but as he grows up he learns to lie, to deceive, to steal, to kill....
Then he loses the good in him the purity.
But i also believe that there are some people who choose not to get carried away with the bad habits and the bad actions so they preserve some of their goodness and purity.

I think people are good but what make them bad is the life style, some ppl have an evil thinking but always you will be able to touch that good side.

what's society ?....and from what is it made ?....isn't it made from the people you think they're good by nature?....than how could it be bad?.....
anyway i think people try to satisfy their needs and that's the reason of all actions .....there's nothing good or bad....it depends from which way you look at it ....it could be bad for you and good for the one doing it....so i don't have an answer for the question maybe it's both im not really sure....

It's not just me who said that actually and i have a direct quote for one the most respected writers and thinkers.

Anyhow, you cannot deny that the human race is good in nature because until this day there are people who preserve this goodness. And Yes the society and the society's needs and requirements render the humans a heartless race.

So my point is exactly the following:

A human in born with goodness in his heart but he is "polluted" by what humans have learned before him. Does a child know how to kill or to steal if he hadn't been taught that? NO. Does he know how to hurt if he hadn't seen anyone do it in front of him? NO.

This is my point exactly. We don't get corrupted and just live this way, we teach it to others and this is how we, the society, corrupt others.

that doesn't mean he's right ....

there's no pure good-ness ...there's always good and bad....
could you please tell me what do you mean by society?....isn't society formed by those "good" people? ....than how this relationship/connection between those "good" people makes it a bad influence to others?

yes he does! when the child or person can't satisfy his needs (wtvr they are...) he uses "bad" methods to satisfy them (bad for others and not for him since those methods are good for him because they're getting him what he wants)....you don't see a child stealing since he hasnt the physical ability to do it....while u see him "fight" to get his toys if someone took them from him.....

It seems you only saw her reply to write in this manner, how come you didn't reply to sheriff's post for e.g.?

In case you don't know Jean Jacques Rousseau, well he was a major Genevois philosopher, writer, and composer of 18th-century Romanticism. His political philosophy influenced the American revolution and subsequently the French revolution, and the development of modern political, sociological and educational thought. (for more info, check wikipedia). So Basically long story short, i don't think you're in a position to say that he was wrong and you are right in this matter; unless you pretend to be a philosopher that wanna raise an army of pu**ies.

But personally, you could have said that you don't agree with him instead of acting as he is wrong and you are right

Since you are looking for some answers, I'll help you out.
good for him and bad for others? Well, if he stole, its good for him for he made money but its bad for others for he has stolen their money? So you are here saying that stealing is good for one person = the thief because he is making money (more money is good4D while it is bad for the innocents (the ones who are getting robbed because they no longer have money:(). in the words of babies it goes like: "kakakoukou, tatatoutou", which means kel shi byeje bdarbak la naffssak 5edo law 3ala 7sseb ghayrak IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY.

And because of that my dear philosopher, the society (bunch of people who are surrounding you, living with you or near you, your environment at work, school/uni, home, etc...) is teaching the new born to act steal, kill, lie, cheat and etc... in order to reach what they want under any circumstances. That is why Evil is reigning in this world because "people" will do whatever they possibly can to reach what they want no matter what. They can act rude because they think that others cannot do so and get what they want in exchange. Or kill because someone stood in their way, or steal because they are in need of something etc...

peace

a bit off topic: Jean Jacques Russo was never faithful to anyone ):, he didn't give education to his children ): he used to sleep with a woman and then denies it, and he was selfish so i dont think he is a good example in here :p

Justin. Tony never said Rousseau was wrong. He was saying that however knowledgeable Rousseau was it does not make him infallible and it does not mean that what he is saying is right. I believe tony was simply attempting to go deeper in this debate. No more no less.

Let's define Good & Bad first. Both are extremely relative.
Who may seem bad to you could be someone's angel.

Dear EVERYONE,

When i replied to this thread, nay when i reply to all threads, i use balanced words and a respectable way to state my ideas and my opinion, never have i replied in way to imply that i do not respect other people's opinions.

And when i quoted Jean-Jacques Rousseau, i did it not because i'm showing off my knowledge because i do not do that, it's because I personally agree with him.
And this is my opinion in this matter. No one can be sure whether humans are born good or bad, we just can have a point of view or a certain opinion from personal experiences or assessments.

I believe that every person is born good, but it is the way he was raised that makes him a good person or a bad person, it's the people he acquaints. And this has been proven by modern psychology, and child psychology.

And to everyone who criticized Rousseau, you are right his personal life way quite a bad one but hadn't he been worthy of our time and hadn't his ideas been wise, we wouldn't have had to study his literature and philosophy in high-school and college.

Kain, if you read all her replies, whether in this thread or in all threads, you would notice that she replies with evidence or examples or quotes, etc... and not only that, but the posts are submitted in a very respectful way without any latt 7ake aw tarsha2a or sarcastic replies.

So after reading his, i noticed that it was an attack and i still think that it was an attack because he could have replied in a respectful manner, giving his opinion in a better organized post and instead of writing all these things, he could have formulated his post the way you did to make his point of view clear and not bashing around.

Most of us here are students, we should at least know how to respect others opinion even if it was right or wrong or against what he/she is saying, there is always a respectful way to reply, and since LATELY el lougha el hamajiye is reigning in the forum then so be it! that's when i replied.

I understand what you mean. I read his replies again just now just to be sure and I'm pretty sure he was misunderstood. If anything tony is the member who cares most about respecting other members in debates and keeping the debate itself respectful.

Maybe he didn't address halhoula correctly, maybe he was misunderstood, it could swing either way. Bas khedouha 3a 7esen niyye menno he didn't mean anything and i'm sure of it :)


edit: and yes i know halhoula replies with the utmost respect to the debate. Ma bada tnen ye7ko fiha.
he just asked all those questions so that the ideas would be thoroughly discussed. And he picked the right person to question because halhoula, if anyone, is educated enough and has the right notions to take this debate in particular to a deeper level.

Notice that he did not reply to any of the other members. Just her.

wtf....what manner?...i wasn't offensive in any post ...i just replied to her post since i don't want to reply to every post and i asked good questions in a good manner ...no bad words no nothing .....

lol...im out of here....

lougha hamajye ?....may i ask you where i didn't respect her?....in what sentence or post?.....
that's the respect and manner your talking about ?

i just asked questions!....i asked you questions and said my point of view, since i don't agree with your point of view...that's al!l....and i didn't get any answer and suddenly i've been told that i disrespected you and offended you ...while i have nothing against you and still can't know what offended you since other people talked ma7allik....
i did respect your point of view....and im asking again in which sentence or post i offended you or talked to you in a bad manner ....u could've said that you don't want to enter in a debate since u believe that this subject isn't good for a debate and not let other people say that i disrespected you and offended you w seret hamaje w medre chou!

Human race is actually bad by nature, and it's the society that makes a person civil. But at the first chance a person gets, they do not hesitate. What holds us back, morality to be precise, is not our nature but rather the series of "dos” and "don’ts”, our parents rooted in us and the society around us.

We, in fact, are not the products of our own mentality; we are the result of external conditions.

The need of survival, through ancient history, tells how human treated each other. You may argue that the negative elements of the society tend to corrupt a person, but how true that is?

Society only functions harmoniously because the populace fears the apparatus of state control.

Just for your info, it is a discussion that many philosophers gave different answers and were written in an appropriate method. And her point of view was clear when yours was irrelevant, for e.g. when you stated: "that doesn't mean he's right ...." when you could have said that you don't agree with Jean because of 1,2,3, etc... That would have helped a lot instead of writing posts that were incomprehensible, tell me why isn't he right? why you are right? You may be right about the topic but give a reason in order to understand your point of view.

Another e.g: "there's no pure good-ness ...there's always good and bad....", as if you know everything. Then explain why, give more clarification about this subject, why there is no pure goodness or evilness or whatever? and because of those ways you were addressing made me think that this guy is shouting and he's upset therefore he is mad about something, maybe I should get him a lollipop and let him sit down and lick it. That is why I was addressing you in an unappropriate way.



and just for your info too, the evil/bad here is the one who took away his toy and not the baby.

Consequently, I'm also outta here for the same reason that she does not want to participate any longer in this subject; not because as you stated " u could've said that you don't want to enter in a debate" but because there are some people who don't know how to clear their message out and b!tch around being bashed for no reason.

peace

You guys!!
Seriously....just lighten up and breathe for a second here...all of you.
Justin started an interesting thread...Halhoula posed a very reasonable (and debatable) point of view (Be it based on Rousseau or her observations solley or both...it is still very reasonable)
Tony then replied with another reasonable (and debatable) point of view posing another way to look at this.
He might've elaborated had this debate gone smoothly which might have been quite interesting since both of you had an opinion and a way to stand up for it.
I honestly found nothing insulting in what he said...and in case I missed anything...I'm sure he was looking for a debate no more no less.
He's questioning that very stance on the subject...not Halhoula's evident knowledge or even her as a person.
Quit with the fighting already...different opinions are valid for different people accordingly.No need to get so defensive you guys!
7ebbo ba3d :Tawa:
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:005:

every human is unique, I don't know more than that