The Situation in Syria
 

What's your stance regarding what's happening in Syria?

Some are showing it as a western attack in order to overthrow the last stronghold of resistance in the region, while others are showing it as a revolution against a dictatorship and should be supported.

Where should Lebanon stand in all of this? and what are the consequences you think Lebanon will face in case of any dramatic change in Syria?

after seeing the people in libya wanting to declare an islamic state, and the people in egypt not even considering erdogan's proposal for a secular state. suddenly I am not too excited about these revolutions. in libya and egypt they would have replaced one dictatorship with another, and bye bye whatever secularism and human rights and women's rights and freedom of theater that existed in mubarak's days.

it is dictatorship...

Well...we should sit aside and watch...
As for the dramatic change in Syria...well no one knows until it happens , other than that it is just speculations ..

i actually don't see el assad falling, however i see everyone around him doing so

1- i thought hezbollah doesnt need that much of support anymore.. Cant hezbollah fight without Syrian support now?

2- So assad = helping resistance , no assad = no help for resistance...
Assad = dictatorship = killing Syrian ppl , no assad = Freedom of what so ever..
i honestly dont care about anything, i just care how you link your future to a dictatorship regime...
3 -Everything has an end, even the resistance...someway , somehow...
4- What do u say for the person holding the below ?

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...99159423_n.jpg

Wasn't it a dictatorship when they launched a war against General Aoun that ended in 13 October 1990 while they were supported by the Americans, LF, Jumblat, Hrawi and all the others?

Wasn't it a dictatorship when Hariri and all the gang were licking the syrian boots in order to become ministers and deputies and steal our money in order to make fortunes?

Isn't the Saudi regime the most dictatorship regime in the world?? why it is supported by the same people and countries who are attacking the Syrian regime nowadays?

As a conclusion, it is not a matter of dictatorships, the whole story is that the USA and its puppets want to establish new regimes in the region that suits their interests and the interest of Israel, just like the Saudi regime and his alike.

It's amazing. What have the Syrian people ever done that's making people question their loyalty to the fight against Israel? In 2006, who was it that sheltered us in their homes when we fled the border?

The argument that we should support the Syrian regime because of their support to HA is just stupid. I thought the reason for the resistance was to resist oppression. They support it in one place just so they can resist it in another? That doesn't make any sense. Not only is the argument stupid but it's low, selfish and if there ever was a definition for evil then this is it.
The Israelis live happy and secure on their oppression of the Palestinians, do you really want to live happy and secure on the oppression of the Syrian people? And how are you not as bad, if not worse, then the Israelis?

Now of course, Israel and the Western powers will take advantage of the situation. But if they do interfere and bring down the regime, don't be surprised if the Syrian people turn on you. Why wouldn't they? You watched the burn and did nothing.

Here is a woman that reminds me of when I was a kid in Lebanon. I used to see women like her in the south and I'd think that these are the ones that HA protects, apparently they save their own mothers by throwing others to the wolves.

Vcoderz.Com

I find myself questioning my loyalties more and more everyday.

I really want a comment from HA supporters on the subject. Is this really what HA stands for?

^^

If you're questioning your loyalties based on individual actions on the smaller scale rather than having them based on the big picture then your priorities and thought pattern need to be thoroughly revised. You should keep in mind that not only is the media lying, but it's fabricating news.
The Israeli agent the syrians caught recently? He had a base of operations in turkey, that was supported by both turkey and the U.S.A. Its only job was to fabricate news, videos, pictures, and give it to anti-assad media so it can be published.

I don't want to go into a debate. 'nuff said.

P.S: I'm not defending the syrian soldiers who did this ( If the video is actually real), but again, i refuse to look at individual occurrences rather than focus on the big picture and the outcome of these proceedings. So i repeat, you should probably revise your thought pattern before you do something as important as revise your loyalties.

By showing how others are wrong that doesnt make u right.

60 years and the person ur defending didnt ask about Joulan..

Tayeb l cha3eb batal bado dawli and they are asking for better...what the hell do u( lebanon) has to do with anything.

@Kain
You don't have to tell me about the "big" picture, I know about it. In fact, I believe I know more about it than you. See, the "big" picture is usually fuzzy, very distorted and there are several versions of it depending on who's painting it. The only way you can get the original, undistorted version is when you look at the details.
Assad might have good intentions, he might be looking at his "big" picture. His intentions do matter, but only up to a point. If his actions result in this happening then his intention aren't worth anything, because if his intention were good then what you see in these videos are the opposite of good.
There isn't a tyrant or citizen in the world that has a "big" picture with them being the monsters. Everyone believes they are doing good and if there is a detail that shows them as monsters then they just paint over it.

Israel sees itself as the savior of its oppressed people. In order to save them they need a land which they can live in without fear. So to get them that security they can't worry about a small detail such as a family loosing its provider, because he was a security risk and had to be put in jail for the rest of his life. They can't worry about a small detail like a family getting their home turned to dust, because they have a responsibility to make houses to the people they set out to save in the first place. They can't worry about a small detail like a young kid being shot, he was throwing rocks and that rock might have hurt one of the people they were trying to save. So what they do is that they blur that detail and never bother to look at it again, see that way they are still the good guys.

Some members here see themselves as the saviors of their oppressed people. In order to save them they need to get weapons to fight the oppressors. They can't worry about about a small detail such as a family loosing its provider, because he wanted the choice of a leader and not the one that inherited their land and lives from his father and that one might not give them the weapons they wanted. They can't worry about a small detail like a family getting their home turned to dust, because in that house there was a young girl talking badly about their ally. They can't worry about a small detail like a young kid being shot, he was throwing rocks and that rock might have hurt one of the people that like the guy who helps them feel secure . So what they do is that they blur that detail and never bother to look at it again, see that way they are still the good guys.

Wrong doesn't become right just because Syria is their friend.
If you're worried about Syria's stance if the regime falls the I'll just refer you to Systas reply.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say we get back whatever Lebanese land/prisoner Israel still has, would you be against peace with them? If yes, what's your motivation?
My Arabic isn't so good, who do you mean by this? The Syrians?

It seems like something that should be obvious, doesn't it?

the sad thing is that everyone is wrong. it's not a fantasy movie where it is good versus evil, and gandalf the white against what's his name in the fiery volcano and the ugly face.

the sad thing is that the world is all messed up, everyone is a vilain that think they are a saint, and everyone is right somewhere and wrong other places. everyone needs to understand that well and stop talking about their side like they are completely right. bachar al assad is wrong to oppress people, same as husni mubarak, and the people are wrong in being muslim fanatics wanting to kill everyone else(which is what muslims in all muslim countries tend to do except for turkey...religion of peace indeed) before someone goes on defending iran, people who change religions from islam to even christianity(not atheism or judaism) get executed. so I stand by my word, tolerating other cultures really is not a famous virtue...and no need to explain saudi arabia

so there is no real solution unless the average IQ of the arab population jumps by a hundred point, and they take a good look of themselves and see that they live like it's the year 500 when it actualy is 2011, then we get somewhere

edit: final note, 7ezeb el baath is the only, only arab secular party, it's the closest thing the arab world has to progress, if it falls we're all set back a thousand years...

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واضح :009:
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Red: walla b2os ide iza bya3emlouwa

Green: u're not the only one

The Person I am defending got to power in the year 2001 and we're in 2011 so it doesn't make it 60 years, the problem is that some stupid people in HAMA want to take their grudge on the son ... <= is that even a democratic behavior? or a glimpse at the better Syria ?!

I am not discussing what's right and what's wrong. I am just showing you the hypocrisy of the USA and its puppets.
They are not supporting democracy or freedom, they are just supporting their gangs in the region in order to create chaos for the sake of Israel.

And what i stated are the proofs:
USA was the main ally of the Baathist regime bi aswa2 iyyemo, they supported him to invade Lebanon and made deals with it in Iraq and Lebanon.
the USA is supporting the most retard regime and dictatorship in universe: Saudi Arabia.

Don't tell me they are in sudden love with the Syrian people.
Despite of all the mistakes of the Syrian regime, what's happening is just a conspiracy and they are taking advantage from Assad's mistakes.

Systas reply is taken from an article written by some casual american writer in the atlantic magazine and translated by Assafir where this writer is claiming that some Hizbollah official told him such and such...bla bla.

Yes from two perspective:

1st - Because ISLAM ( and not only the Shi3a teachings ) forbids to make peace with the israeli zionists

2nd - Because from a PATRIOTIC ( this word is rarely applied in Lebanon ) Lebanese perspective, you can't make peace with those who destroyed your country and you capital several times.

If there should be any peace israel should ask for it, not us !!

No, I meant 14 of March and both their Public and behind the curtains scandals during July 2006 war ... and if it weren't for Al Assad and Baath regime guidelines, rest assured they wouldn't have received us in Syria coz if Al Baath didn't exist back then, the situation would be

" El Masee7eh 3a Beirut and El Alawee ( Shi3a next ) 3al Teboot "

I remember seeing many signs with this written on it i will try to find a pic and post it

Yes, understand what you mean but hate and revenge do not justify declining peace.
This is what I wanted from you.
Even after we get what they took from us we will still have the problem of the Palestinians. We can't make peace with Israel until they stop oppressing our neighbors.
Where is then the sense in oppressing one neighbor to free the other?
Anyone who believes that the US wants what's good for us is an idiot. Nobody is arguing with that.
I wasn't looking for a discussion about peace with Israel, I just wanted Hassans reply, but I'm going to make a reply anyway:
1st - Islam does not forbid peace with Israel. Israel did not exists at the time of the prophet so there can't be anything about it specifically in the religion. The prophet had many treaties with the Jews.
Here is an excerpt from a treaty with the tribes of Medina which include Jewish tribes:
"The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace..."

2nd- Patriotic thinking usually comes from fear and so it's not intelligent. If we keep being at war then every couple of years we will get the crap pounded out of us.
If the war stops then we might be able to build a country that people want to live in.

Since you do, why give the US the advantage and the upper hand to tamper with Syria's and Lebanon's peace !?

1) True there's no state called israel in the first place !! but there's a people called the israeli people and that's what I am referring to and yes islam told you to fight the people of israel !! CLEARLY !! do some more research !!

2) a Treaty <= is not peace it is a merely temporary cease fire in our days. Besides what kind of peace are you seeking when the israelis asked netanyahu today to issue a law that allows them ( not the army but the colonists ) to shoot and kill every Palestinian that throws a small rock at them. To return to our topic, why did then the prophet fought them and kicked them out from ared al hijaz later on ?!

that's a typical Lebanese thinking which doesn't define the meaning of patriotism, the Japanese people have nothing to fear, yet their patriotism and love for their land has no equal in the world !! while the Lebanese finds no problem sell everything that makes him Lebanese for a few dollars.
e.g. the famous saying " Lebnen El Akhdar " is no longer a reality why because ma khalayna wou la ba2ayna bi Lebnen laydal akhdar, even U.A.E has more trees than we do and the terraformed area in U.A.E doesn't even equal the space of Lebanon.

So patriotism my friend comes from how much you love your land, how much you are ready to pay in blood for it, how if one part of your people is under attack, you don't make fun of them and do a banquet for their killer !!

Some people in Lebanon are happy that Lebanon is at the top of Majless El Amen, while I looked at mikati in disgrace, what kind of minister is that that agrees to imposed more pressure on his people to pay for a shitty trial to kill his own people ? what kind of minister is that, that takes order from Jeffrey Feltman and Clinton !! Wleek Tfeh

You want more patriotism ?! What about the piece of news we just heard now on NewTV that Angola arrested 45 Lebanese and their families and they again SOB7AN ALLAH turned to be Shi3a and what is the excuse " Terrorism " <== these people have been residing their even before Lebanon took his independence, hala2 saro terrorist and one of them told NewTV he FRANKLY AND SURELY accuses 14 of March being behind this !!

After the Gulf, now it is Africa, I won't be surprised if another 7 ayar happened and I think this time, I might join in because I have been victim of the above situation, however it happened to me in Lebanon and 2 weeks before I spoke to one of my friends in UAE and he told me VISAs for the Shi3a are forbidden just because the are Shi3a !!

How about this !! you know, how I feel right now !! I wouldn't feel sorry if sa3doun dies with a bigger booomm, because what he and 14 march are doing is an attempt to murder people ..... Kate3 el Arzak min Kate3 el A3nak.

This is false peace and false democracy, look at Lybia now ... they are buying WATER !!! thousands died there by NATO's bombing, is anyone counting ?!

That does not mean that peace is valued above other principles, namely pride. I should remind you and our fellow members that as soon as the Jews of different tribes started breaking the treaty by plotting against and causing civil unrest among muslim, as well as aiding, and even financing wars against them, they faced war one after another (Some surrendered, others did not). You may refer to Bani Nudayr, Banu Qaynaqaa', Banu Quraydah, the jews of Fadak, the Battle of Khaybar ( dakhlak ya imemou 3ale :D), and the Jews of Tayma'.

Above that the peace mentioned in the treaty was the one that would favor the unity and well being of both parties of that treaty.
And just so that the members won't be misguided, the treaty was made in times of peace with the jews of Medina. Not after they broke the treaty or previous treaties. It was still in the earlier years of Islam.
Since we're getting dragged into the Islamic point of view then I should probably say a few words here because you're getting confused. And i do mean a few.

Patriotism does not originate from fear. It originates from pride. A principle all human beings share in varying degrees. The love for one's country and the will to defend it and one's land, family, way of life, (etc...Reasons may vary, could be one, could be all) are the driving force behind this principle, not fear.

عم بتخبّص منيح عزيزي.:D

I know what ended up happening but the reason I gave that treaty as an example was that he said that it was forbidden for us to have peace with Israel, which is simply not true. Well, that is unless there is some new prophet that I haven't heard about.

I said usually, not all patriotism is based on fear.
Pride has a lot to do with patriotism, I agree. But I disagree with you when you show pride as a good thing, pride has always had a big role in humanities biggest crimes.
Pride is just fine sometimes, if you are proud of yourself when you do something good for example. But for the most part pride means that you are the best and everyone else is beneath you and everyone who disagrees with you should be killed. A few examples are Israel, Al-Qaida, the Nazis & the US. All of them are patriots and all of them are proud.

Like you said, it can be one or many of those things. But you have to agree that some of those things have a higher value than others, it doesn't make sense put your land above your family.
But many patriots would sacrifice their families, not because of their land but because the fear of loosing all the pride they built up while defending their land.

Axis-of-Evil is such a patriot and so proud that he wouldn't mind if his family got killed by Israel. He might fail as a son, brother or father but he will succeed as a proud Lebanese patriot, and for a patriot that's all that matters.

PS: I was actually going to write that patriotism is based on fear and pride but then I thought that I will just end up explaining why pride is bad. But ... :001:.

Yes you're not looking for a debate about peace with Israel but it's come to this so....
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Still. Patriotism essentially comes from pride under most (if not all) circumstances. The example of fear can only be taken into consideration when facing the threat of a greater power, and under specific circumstances. I don't think Lebanese people would all of a sudden become patriots had we been facing an attack from the Dalai Lama.

I did not say that all forms of pride were good. I was merely pointing out that patriotism is based on it. It's double edged. As all principles or feelings you should not have it in excess nor should it be lacking.

It was fairly obvious that some things have higher value so I did not see much point in pointing it out.


This is a very specific case. We're not debating by specific examples but by arguments.

( And for God's sake it's *losing :'( )

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Concerning peace with Israel...Considering its past stance and its destructive, controlling policy, then peace with Israelis is surely out of the question because of the course it has led so far, and by peace I mean letting the Israelis secure the land they are currently occupying and allow them to inhabit it.

However if they do agree for peace on our terms and evacuate the land they raped then yes that can be established.

It would be impossible for us to ask for anything less than our God given right to have them out of this region after all the destruction, misery and death they have caused. Then they can go live in tents just as they have done to the Palestinians they've massacred, displaced, and left homeless for more than 60 years.

This is perfectly plausible, rational, and justifiable. To demand anything less would be unjust. To demand or acknowledge any right for these Israelis to live in the land they're occupying -by saying we can have peace with them and they can live in the land they raped- would be no less than treason in the name of humanity, and would be deemed support of the injustice they have caused.

Bashar will stay as long as the americans need him, when he's no longer useful he'll "fall" just like all other Arab leaders...









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