20 years: Taef agreement

[Jess]

ترقبوا للمرة الأولى العماد ميشال عون وجهاً لوجه مع عدد من نواب الطائف ضمن "عشرون عاماً على الطائف" الخميس التاسعة والربع مساءً على ال
- otv

[Sheriff Ice]

20 years passed , and He was right, 20 years passed and all what he said 20 years ago happened.

Till when we still have to doubt about what he Said.

hail General Michel Aoun.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Ice

20 years passed , and He was right, 20 years passed and all what he said 20 years ago happened.

Till when we still have to doubt about what he Said.

hail General Michel Aoun.

And what was his solution at the time? Did it involve taking more weapons from Saddam Hussien and fighting the Syrians for him?

Anyway, I hope Alber Mansour will be on this show. I like to see people who know what they're talking about debating Aoun..

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh

And what was his solution at the time? Did it involve taking more weapons from Saddam Hussien and fighting the Syrians for him?

Anyway, I hope Alber Mansour will be on this show. I like to see people who know what they're talking about debating Aoun..

Of course it's involved and there's nothing to be ashamed of when your country is occupied. I don't know how this theory doesn't work for you but Hizbullah' does!

What he has done is really honorable at least comparing to the ones who didn't do anything or the ones who supported them like that stupid albert mansour, Jumblat, Berri...

GMA & FPM were the ONLY to stand against all kind of occupations even in mid 90s when the Syrian boot lick-ers were accusing us being pro-israelis we used to hold 425 slogans "Syria out", "Israel out".

We certainly don't need certificates from anyone not from the current known 14 march nor from the opposition since all of them were in the same basket.

Mafi shi esmo mid-patriotism, it's either you are against all kind of occupations or you aren't. FPM stand was and still clear.
I don't agree with lot of FPM changes but i can't also deny all those stands that none of the Lebanese parties dared to make for its own interest and not the country's.

They used to call us "Pro israelis" because were were standing against the Syrian occupation, and now they're calling us "Pro syrian" because we're calling for good relations with it + free our occupied land.

7tarna ya ar3a men wen badna nbousik

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by xcoder

Of course it's involved and there's nothing to be ashamed of when your country is occupied. I don't know how this theory doesn't work for you but Hizbullah' does!

What he has done is really honorable at least comparing to the ones who didn't do anything or the ones who supported them like that stupid albert mansour, Jumblat, Berri...

GMA & FPM were the ONLY to stand against all kind of occupations even in mid 90s when the Syrian boot lick-ers were accusing us being pro-israelis we used to hold 425 slogans "Syria out", "Israel out".

We certainly don't need certificates from anyone not from the current known 14 march nor from the opposition since all of them were in the same basket.

Mafi shi esmo mid-patriotism, it's either you are against all kind of occupations or you aren't. FPM stand was and still clear.
I don't agree with lot of FPM changes but i can't also deny all those stands that none of the Lebanese parties dared to make for its own interest and not the country's.

They used to call us "Pro israelis" because were were standing against the Syrian occupation, and now they're calling us "Pro syrian" because we're calling for good relations with it + free our occupied land.

7tarna ya ar3a men wen badna nbousik

Do you really think, knowing me as much as you do through my posts, that HA would really make sense to me after what happened after the elections in Iran? We basically have armed followers of a brutal regime that like any dictatorship would kill, slaughter, rape, burn and blindly persecute to protect its existance...Not the existance of a country, but of a dictatorship residing in that country...

See I totally relate to Aoun's thing, be against everyone who occupies our country. Check out all my posts and you will see that in at least half of them I mention that not only he is a patriot but also the only patriot.

But he was supported by Saddam Hussien. To me this is a touchy subject because as many people like me in this forum who relate to the Iraqi recent history, we think that Saddam Hussien is worse than Israel. When I count the reasons why I hate all arabic leaders, the top reason is their support/silence when it comes to Saddam Hussien's atrocities.

What did Aoun know at the time more than anyone else did to judge that while Syria (btw, just so that you won't mistake me to something I am not...F*ck Syria...today, yesterday and tomorrow) had ambitions and a dirty agenda for Lebanon, Saddam didn't have any? Are you happy that the same person giving you weapons was at the same time destroying villages in his own country over the heads of its residents?

Aoun made a pact with the devil at the time, just like Bashir Gemayyel did. But yeah so did everyone else. Whereas I think they are all not worthy of my respect for what they did, you single out Aoun and say his pact with Saddam was different from Berri/Jumblat/7awi pact with Syria or Gemayyel pact with Israel...

And again, Aoun didn't have a solution at the time. No one did. We emerged from the war with the Atayef agreement which I agree sucked but it ended the civil war. With an occupation, bad agreements, stupid system...but it stopped all the death. Maybe that was a good start...if anyone wanted to follow up with the right steps. Aside from Aoun, no one did (we both agree here)..

[xcoder]

Of course you can't compare, in the case of Gemayel and the others we had an existing Israeli and Syrian occupation, which doesn't apply on the deal with Iraq, even France supported the Army back then indirectly through Iraq.

I may support any contribution to strength the Lebanese Army either it came from the U.S, Syrian, KSA... same thing goes to the resistance which i believe also that Iran is an awful regime but can't deny its contribution in a way or another nor the negative effects.

I think the best thing to do back then was this rather than going to Taef and give away the country for 14 years of occupation.
GMA back then asked for the "comma" to be added to the agreement which defines the Syrian withdrawal which didn't happen with a clear question (recorded) "How can i make sure the Syrians will leave in 2 years?, how can i make sure our independence will be restored when the Syrians will have their hands on all our public institutions?" He was so right and they were so wrong.

Now the Syrians are out and he's asking for good relations with them and i believe the same thing will happen when Israel leaves our occupied land as well.

FPM is by far the only Lebanese party that had patriotic battles and demands since its existence and the gap between it and other parties is pretty big knowing that it's reducing with those sectarian and cake sharing slogans.

Things are more than clear, trying to cover a whole era of resistance to "save" the country sovereignty and independence to an emergency act of weapon supply?

I don't really get your point, how could you compare him to the others if he hadn't done any links to the OCCUPIERS under fire and massacres let alone the exile story.

[Jess]

العماد عون لل
ـotv
في حلقة خاصة عن اتفاق الطائف:

- اقول في الذكرى ال20 لإتفاق الطائف ان الاحتفاظ بالاستقلال اصعب من الحصول عليه، ونحن اليوم ندعي اننا نشكل الحكومة ولكن الحقيقة انه يتم طبخها في الخارج بسبب بعض الأطراف التي تفسح مجالاً للتدخل الخارجي

- عدم تعديل الدستور وفقاً للتحولات هو كان وراء الحرب الدموية، فالدستور مثل الكائنات الحية يجب ان يتأقلم مع التغيرات

- كان علينا واجب الدفاع عن الوطن فقاومنا وهذا حقنا

- استلمت البلد مرهقاً وانا استنهضته، والحروب التي سبقت وصولي الى بعبدا لست مسؤولاً عنها

- لم يكم لدي طمع برئاسة الجمهورية لانها عرضت علي لكني رفضتها وفضلت الجمهورية على الرئاسة

- اجتماعهم بالطائف كان مخالفات دستورية بالجملة وخالفوا ما اتفقنا عليه في بعبدا

- انا قلت للنواب قبل ذهابهم الى الطائف انني غير موافق على ذهابهم ومع ذلك وعدوا بالاتزام بما اتفقنا عليه في لبنان

[Jess]

عون: الوصاية السورية آخذها الأميركي والدليل بتوزيع وزارات الأمن والمال

أكد رئيس تكتل "التغيير والإصلاح" النائب ميشال عون في حديث لتلفزيون
"Otv"
في الذكرى الـ20 لاتفاق الطائف، انه لو عاد الزمن 20 سنة الى الوراء لـ"كنت أقدمت على نفس الشيء ولا أندم على أي شيء قمت به"، مضيفا: "كان هناك خيارين إما أقبل أو أرفض، وفضلت الرفض على اي أمر آخر يضر بلبنان".

وعن ما يُقال أنه كان ضرورة لايقاف الحرب، قال: "بالنسبة للذين وقعوا الطائف كان ضرورة لهم ولكن ليسوا هم من كان يقاتل وليسوا هم من كانوا يدفعون الثمن".
وأضاف: "قالوا لي في حينها خذ رئاسة الجمهورية فقلت لهم أنا أريد الجمهورية وأعطيهم الرئاسة وحتى الآن كل مواقفي هي دفاعا عن الجمهورية".

وعن حرب التحرير، قال عون: "كانت مقاومة، هم من أسموها حربا ولكن أنا لم أذهب الى دمشق لأقاتل بل هم كانوا في لبنان، وأنا كنت أدافع عن بعبدا آخر معقل يمثل الشرعية"، مضيفا: "نحن خسرنا الحرب ولكن لم نعط سيادتنا ولم نتنازل عن حقنا بالدفاع عن بلدنا".
وأشار الى أن كل المرحلة التي مرت منذ اتفاق الطائف وحتى الـ2005 كان رئيس الجمهورية يُعين بتفاهم أميركي-سوري ويصدق عليه مجلس النواب، وأنا رفضت التآمر على لبنان وهعلى سيادته
ودعا الى تخطي الأحداث التي حصلت والاستفادة من الأخطاء بدلا من الإصرار على عمل خاطئ حدث تاريخيا.

ورأى أن البديل عن الطائف يومها كان اتفاقا منصفا لا يضع لبنان تحت وصاية سورية-سعودية واحدة تدير الأمن والسياسة والآخرى تدير الاقتصاد، معتبرا أنه في الـ2005 ذهبت الوصاية السورية وبقيت الوصاية السعودية وجاء الأميركي ليأخذ الوصاية السورية، مشيرا الى أن وزارة الدفاع والوزارات الأمنية أعطيت لجهة معينة بينما أعطيت وزارات المال والاقتصاد لجهة معينة آخرى وممنوع أن نقترب منهم نحن، مشددا على أننا ما زلنا نسعى لاستعادة سيادتنا وتشكيل حكومة من موازين القوى الموجودة في البلد.

وختم عون بالقول: "أعرف أن الاحتفاظ بالاستقلال أصعب من الحصول عليه والأزمة التي نعيشها تتكرر، ندعي أننا أخذنا السيادة والاستقلال وحكوماتنا تؤلف في الخارج"، مضيفا: "نحن نحترم كل صداقاتنا في الخارج ولكن نحب أن نكون أسياد أنفسنا فيما يتعلق بالحكومة ونحب أن يمارس كل اللبنانيين نفس الشيء ولا يصبح هناك تضليل إعلامي في هذا الموضوع وحرب نوايا علينا"، مشددا على أن "التدخل من الخارج يحصل لأن هناك أطرافا داخليين يجعلونه يتدخل".