The Situation in Syria

[Adam]

Originally Posted by H@SSàN

Having peace with Israel is so complicated, there's a long bloody history between us and Israel, not to mention the Palestinian's refugees issue...
......
......
but there's still a part of me that refuses to recognize those people and have peace with them...

Yes, understand what you mean but hate and revenge do not justify declining peace.

Originally Posted by H@SSàN

But to answer you question, I think peace should be held sooner or later (maybe after the Palestinians have their state, and live in peace),

This is what I wanted from you.
Even after we get what they took from us we will still have the problem of the Palestinians. We can't make peace with Israel until they stop oppressing our neighbors.
Where is then the sense in oppressing one neighbor to free the other?

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

I am not discussing what's right and what's wrong. I am just showing you the hypocrisy of the USA and its puppets.
They are not supporting democracy or freedom, they are just supporting their gangs in the region in order to create chaos for the sake of Israel.

And what i stated are the proofs:
USA was the main ally of the Baathist regime bi aswa2 iyyemo, they supported him to invade Lebanon and made deals with it in Iraq and Lebanon.
the USA is supporting the most retard regime and dictatorship in universe: Saudi Arabia.

Don't tell me they are in sudden love with the Syrian people.
Despite of all the mistakes of the Syrian regime, what's happening is just a conspiracy and they are taking advantage from Assad's mistakes.

Originally Posted by Axis-of-Evil

You read and believe the article posted in ASSAFIR taken from the Atlantic magazine by some American author. Just to give you a hint read many articles from different sources and make your own opinion, take it as an advice, to reach and touch more to the REAL truth and the REAL News always observe the Political/Geographical MAP.

Besides, who ever thinks that the regime in Syria is sectarian and the Alaweets are governing Syria ... doesn't know shit !! The Baath is governing Syria and the Baath is not a sectarian regime !!

to answer this, any coming regime orchestrated by the americans ... WILL NOT TAKE STAND WITH Hizbollah.
Law baddoun eyse3dou keno se3adou min zamen !!

Let's stop treating Lebanon like a weak country that isn't capable to do anything. FYI, through out the history of the Arab-israeli conflict Lebanon is the only country that inflicted real damage to israel on all levels.
Even till now the Egyptians aren't able to take control of their own country, same goes for Tunisia and Libya and Yemen and Bahrain.

So ba3ed bakeer for Hizbollah to worry, since Lebanon is a sectarian country and that revolutions don't succeed ... what worries Hizbollah is the attempt by the united states to reboot the Civil War, that's the only way to plunge Lebanon into chaos and add it to the other arab countries in turmoil.

Anyone who believes that the US wants what's good for us is an idiot. Nobody is arguing with that.

Originally Posted by Axis-of-Evil

1st - Because ISLAM ( and not only the Shi3a teachings ) forbids to make peace with the israeli zionists

2nd - Because from a PATRIOTIC ( this word is rarely applied in Lebanon ) Lebanese perspective, you can't make peace with those who destroyed your country and you capital several times.

If there should be any peace israel should ask for it, not us !!

I wasn't looking for a discussion about peace with Israel, I just wanted Hassans reply, but I'm going to make a reply anyway:
1st - Islam does not forbid peace with Israel. Israel did not exists at the time of the prophet so there can't be anything about it specifically in the religion. The prophet had many treaties with the Jews.
Here is an excerpt from a treaty with the tribes of Medina which include Jewish tribes:
"The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace..."

2nd- Patriotic thinking usually comes from fear and so it's not intelligent. If we keep being at war then every couple of years we will get the crap pounded out of us.
If the war stops then we might be able to build a country that people want to live in.

[Axis-of-Evil]

Originally Posted by Adam

Anyone who believes that the US wants what's good for us is an idiot. Nobody is arguing with that.

Since you do, why give the US the advantage and the upper hand to tamper with Syria's and Lebanon's peace !?

Originally Posted by Adam

I wasn't looking for a discussion about peace with Israel, I just wanted Hassans reply, but I'm going to make a reply anyway:
1st - Islam does not forbid peace with Israel. Israel did not exists at the time of the prophet so there can't be anything about it specifically in the religion. The prophet had many treaties with the Jews.
Here is an excerpt from a treaty with the tribes of Medina which include Jewish tribes:
"The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace..."

1) True there's no state called israel in the first place !! but there's a people called the israeli people and that's what I am referring to and yes islam told you to fight the people of israel !! CLEARLY !! do some more research !!

2) a Treaty <= is not peace it is a merely temporary cease fire in our days. Besides what kind of peace are you seeking when the israelis asked netanyahu today to issue a law that allows them ( not the army but the colonists ) to shoot and kill every Palestinian that throws a small rock at them. To return to our topic, why did then the prophet fought them and kicked them out from ared al hijaz later on ?!

Originally Posted by Adam

2nd- Patriotic thinking usually comes from fear and so it's not intelligent. If we keep being at war then every couple of years we will get the crap pounded out of us.
If the war stops then we might be able to build a country that people want to live in.

that's a typical Lebanese thinking which doesn't define the meaning of patriotism, the Japanese people have nothing to fear, yet their patriotism and love for their land has no equal in the world !! while the Lebanese finds no problem sell everything that makes him Lebanese for a few dollars.
e.g. the famous saying " Lebnen El Akhdar " is no longer a reality why because ma khalayna wou la ba2ayna bi Lebnen laydal akhdar, even U.A.E has more trees than we do and the terraformed area in U.A.E doesn't even equal the space of Lebanon.

So patriotism my friend comes from how much you love your land, how much you are ready to pay in blood for it, how if one part of your people is under attack, you don't make fun of them and do a banquet for their killer !!

Some people in Lebanon are happy that Lebanon is at the top of Majless El Amen, while I looked at mikati in disgrace, what kind of minister is that that agrees to imposed more pressure on his people to pay for a shitty trial to kill his own people ? what kind of minister is that, that takes order from Jeffrey Feltman and Clinton !! Wleek Tfeh

You want more patriotism ?! What about the piece of news we just heard now on NewTV that Angola arrested 45 Lebanese and their families and they again SOB7AN ALLAH turned to be Shi3a and what is the excuse " Terrorism " <== these people have been residing their even before Lebanon took his independence, hala2 saro terrorist and one of them told NewTV he FRANKLY AND SURELY accuses 14 of March being behind this !!

After the Gulf, now it is Africa, I won't be surprised if another 7 ayar happened and I think this time, I might join in because I have been victim of the above situation, however it happened to me in Lebanon and 2 weeks before I spoke to one of my friends in UAE and he told me VISAs for the Shi3a are forbidden just because the are Shi3a !!

How about this !! you know, how I feel right now !! I wouldn't feel sorry if sa3doun dies with a bigger booomm, because what he and 14 march are doing is an attempt to murder people ..... Kate3 el Arzak min Kate3 el A3nak.

This is false peace and false democracy, look at Lybia now ... they are buying WATER !!! thousands died there by NATO's bombing, is anyone counting ?!

[Axis-of-Evil]

Originally Posted by SysTaMatIcS

stop talking about my post men wara dahri , and i ddnt take that from anywhere , its my own thoughts.

Sob7an Allah , akeed there's telepathy between you and that American author.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by Adam

Here is an excerpt from a treaty with the tribes of Medina which include Jewish tribes:
"The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace..."

That does not mean that peace is valued above other principles, namely pride. I should remind you and our fellow members that as soon as the Jews of different tribes started breaking the treaty by plotting against and causing civil unrest among muslim, as well as aiding, and even financing wars against them, they faced war one after another (Some surrendered, others did not). You may refer to Bani Nudayr, Banu Qaynaqaa', Banu Quraydah, the jews of Fadak, the Battle of Khaybar ( dakhlak ya imemou 3ale ), and the Jews of Tayma'.

Above that the peace mentioned in the treaty was the one that would favor the unity and well being of both parties of that treaty.
And just so that the members won't be misguided, the treaty was made in times of peace with the jews of Medina. Not after they broke the treaty or previous treaties. It was still in the earlier years of Islam.

Originally Posted by Adam

2nd- Patriotic thinking usually comes from fear and so it's not intelligent. If we keep being at war then every couple of years we will get the crap pounded out of us.

Since we're getting dragged into the Islamic point of view then I should probably say a few words here because you're getting confused. And i do mean a few.

Patriotism does not originate from fear. It originates from pride. A principle all human beings share in varying degrees. The love for one's country and the will to defend it and one's land, family, way of life, (etc...Reasons may vary, could be one, could be all) are the driving force behind this principle, not fear.

عم بتخبّص منيح عزيزي.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Kain

That does not mean that peace is valued above other principles, namely pride. I should remind you and our fellow members that as soon as the Jews of different tribes started breaking the treaty by plotting against and causing civil unrest among muslim, as well as aiding, and even financing wars against them, they faced war one after another (Some surrendered, others did not). You may refer to Bani Nudayr, Banu Qaynaqaa', Banu Quraydah, the jews of Fadak, the Battle of Khaybar ( dakhlak ya imemou 3ale ), and the Jews of Tayma'.

Above that the peace mentioned in the treaty was the one that would favor the unity and well being of both parties of that treaty.
And just so that the members won't be misguided, the treaty was made in times of peace with the jews of Medina. Not after they broke the treaty or previous treaties. It was still in the earlier years of Islam.

I know what ended up happening but the reason I gave that treaty as an example was that he said that it was forbidden for us to have peace with Israel, which is simply not true. Well, that is unless there is some new prophet that I haven't heard about.

Originally Posted by Kain

Since we're getting dragged into the Islamic point of view then I should probably say a few words here because you're getting confused. And i do mean a few.

Patriotism does not originate from fear. It originates from pride. A principle all human beings share in varying degrees. The love for one's country and the will to defend it and one's land, family, way of life, (etc...Reasons may vary, could be one, could be all) are the driving force behind this principle, not fear.

عم بتخبّص منيح عزيزي.

I said usually, not all patriotism is based on fear.
Pride has a lot to do with patriotism, I agree. But I disagree with you when you show pride as a good thing, pride has always had a big role in humanities biggest crimes.
Pride is just fine sometimes, if you are proud of yourself when you do something good for example. But for the most part pride means that you are the best and everyone else is beneath you and everyone who disagrees with you should be killed. A few examples are Israel, Al-Qaida, the Nazis & the US. All of them are patriots and all of them are proud.

Like you said, it can be one or many of those things. But you have to agree that some of those things have a higher value than others, it doesn't make sense put your land above your family.
But many patriots would sacrifice their families, not because of their land but because the fear of loosing all the pride they built up while defending their land.

Axis-of-Evil is such a patriot and so proud that he wouldn't mind if his family got killed by Israel. He might fail as a son, brother or father but he will succeed as a proud Lebanese patriot, and for a patriot that's all that matters.

PS: I was actually going to write that patriotism is based on fear and pride but then I thought that I will just end up explaining why pride is bad. But ... .

[Kain]

Yes you're not looking for a debate about peace with Israel but it's come to this so....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Adam

I said usually, not all patriotism is based on fear.

Still. Patriotism essentially comes from pride under most (if not all) circumstances. The example of fear can only be taken into consideration when facing the threat of a greater power, and under specific circumstances. I don't think Lebanese people would all of a sudden become patriots had we been facing an attack from the Dalai Lama.

Originally Posted by Adam

But I disagree with you when you show pride as a good thing, pride has always had a big role in humanities biggest crimes.

I did not say that all forms of pride were good. I was merely pointing out that patriotism is based on it. It's double edged. As all principles or feelings you should not have it in excess nor should it be lacking.

Originally Posted by Adam

Like you said, it can be one or many of those things. But you have to agree that some of those things have a higher value than others, it doesn't make sense put your land above your family.

It was fairly obvious that some things have higher value so I did not see much point in pointing it out.

Originally Posted by Adam

But many patriots would sacrifice their families, not because of their land but because the fear of loosing all the pride they built up while defending their land.

This is a very specific case. We're not debating by specific examples but by arguments.

( And for God's sake it's *losing )

---->
Concerning peace with Israel...Considering its past stance and its destructive, controlling policy, then peace with Israelis is surely out of the question because of the course it has led so far, and by peace I mean letting the Israelis secure the land they are currently occupying and allow them to inhabit it.

However if they do agree for peace on our terms and evacuate the land they raped then yes that can be established.

It would be impossible for us to ask for anything less than our God given right to have them out of this region after all the destruction, misery and death they have caused. Then they can go live in tents just as they have done to the Palestinians they've massacred, displaced, and left homeless for more than 60 years.

This is perfectly plausible, rational, and justifiable. To demand anything less would be unjust. To demand or acknowledge any right for these Israelis to live in the land they're occupying -by saying we can have peace with them and they can live in the land they raped- would be no less than treason in the name of humanity, and would be deemed support of the injustice they have caused.

[Axis-of-Evil]

Game Over
Bashar El Assad wins !!
Flawless victory

mabrouk for the Syrians the stopping of the stupid bloodshed and the end of the ugly spring

[SysTaMatIcS]

Who said its game over? there are still protests all over syria , yemen president ali saleh can gather people too , it doesnt mean that he is legitimate

[Axis-of-Evil]

Originally Posted by systamatics

who said its game over? There are still protests all over syria , yemen president ali saleh can gather people too , it doesnt mean that he is legitimate

بعتذر يا مان بس زهقني هل الفيلم الاميريكي الطويل...............أخخخخخخخخخخ يا رفيق زياد والله بتحكي حكم ........عم يحتكروككككككم عم يحتكروككككككممممم

[O-angel]

Bashar will stay as long as the americans need him, when he's no longer useful he'll "fall" just like all other Arab leaders...