Arabs or not ??

[xcoder]

Stop using this stupid language please that everyone who thinks that lebanese aren't arab is stupid and showing off because you just like to talk.
you're talking about arabism as if arabs were always supporting us and didn't occpy our land and killed our children. you just don't get the fact that lebanese are mix and not pure arabs!!!
i didn't know the lebanese armenians are original arabs, get real for god sakes it's not the language that decides who you are.
do you feel you belong to the same category as saoudis or kuwaitis or egyptiens or maroco... eh ana i don't you can call me metkaber yalli badkon yeh but you can't ignore the fact that lebanon is a mix and if you follow the old origins we're not from the same race.
This is the definition of arabs, you're arabs and you don't know what it means. you should feel shame of yourself because your ignoring your origins.

اطلق الآراميون وهم سكان شرقي الفرات، لفظة "عرب" على قاطني غرب الفرات ، في ما يعرف اليوم بالجزيرة العربية للدلالة على موقعهم الجعرافي .

لفظة "عرب" تعني "غرب" في اصلها الآرامي، ومن الآرامية انتقلت الى العبرانية والبابلية والسريانية وغيرها من اللغات السامية.

ولمّا كان هؤلاء "الغربيون" يسكنون البوادي القاحلة، اصبحت لفظة "عرب" تطلق على كل من قطن البادية وعاش حياة البداوة والاعرابية والجفاف والفقر"
(المفصّل في تاريخ العرب قبل الاسلام_ جواد علي_ 1/18)

الآراميون اطلقوا لفظة "عرب" على سكان غربي الفرات، لأن لفظة "عرب" في لغتهم تعني "الغرب" ، ومنها "عرُبُو" أي "غروب" ...وتعني ايضاً "خلط" و"مزج" ...ومنها ايضاً "عروبتو" ليوم "الجمعة" ، الذي كان يسمّى في المصادر الجاهلية "يوم العروبة" ، وهو يوم غروب الاسبوع قبل يوم الراحة...
وسمّى الجاهليون يوم "العروبة" بيوم الجمعة من تجمّعهم (جمعة مشتقّة من تجمّع) فيه للتبضّع في مساء السبت، وما زالت اللغة العربية تحمل هذه المعاني حتى اليوم.

"وقد فهم الآراميون بالعرب وببلاد العرب كل ما له علاقة بالإعرابية والسكن في البادية"
(المرجع نفسه_ 1/22)

...وفي الكتابات البالبية وردت جملة "ماتوا اربي" أي "ارض عربي" أو "ارض العرب" ...والمقصود بها : البادية الحافلة بالبدو الذين يعيشون حياة فقر، والذين يعيشون غربي الفرات.

ولهذا سمّى سكان مدن بابل ، اهل البادية بإسم "عمرو" (أو عربوا) أي اهل الغرب، لأن بلادهم واقعة غربي الفرات، وهو اسمهم القديم في بابل...ثم سمّوهم "عريبي" او "عرب" ومعناها ايضاً في اللغة السامية الأصلية "الغربيون" وكانوا يسمون بلادهم "مات عريبي" اي بلاد الغربيين، او بلاد العرب.

وفي الكتابات الأشورية نجد اقدم نص وردت فيه لفظة "عرب" من ايام الملك الشوري شلمنصر الثالث سنة 824 ق.م ، وقد ترك نصّاً شهيراً بعد ان انتصر على ملك دمشق الآرامي ...يقول في النص: " قرقر، عاصمته الملكية، أنا خرّبتها ، انا دمرتها، انا احرقتها بالنار: 1200 مركبة، 10.000 جمل لجندب عربي ...هؤلاء تألبّوا عليّ" ..والمقصود في كلمة "عرب" في هذا النص "بداوة ومشيخة كانت تحكم في ايامها البادية ، تمييزاً لها عن قبائل اخرى كانت مستقرّة في تخوم البادية"

ويعلّق الدكتور فيليب حتّي على ذلك في كتابه "تاريخ العرب قبل الاسلام" بقوله:" ومن بديع الاتفاق ان اول اسم عربي يسجّله التاريخ ، جاء مقروناً بإسم الجمل"

وفي النص الفارسي المكتوب للملك داريوس سنة 486 قز/ جاءت لفظة "عرباية" بمعنى البلاد الصحراوية المتاخمة لأرض فارس، ووجدت هذه الكتابة في قرية "بهستون" في همذان وحلوان.

نستدّل من كل ذلك أن لفظة "عرب" هي صفة لأناس عاشوا حياة فقر وبادية كانوا يقطنون غربي الفرات، وقد تطورّت اللفظة مع الزمن لتشمل كل من سكن في الصحراء القاحلة ، فذهب بعض العلماء الى إدخال طور سيناء في جملة هذه البوادي ، حتى ان كل قطعة ارض قاحلة في اي بقعة، دعيت "عربية" وكل شعب يعيش في البداوة سميّ "عربياً".
( أعربي هو!_ ابو موسى الحريري)

The word "arab" is a geographical determination ...

the poeples and the tribes living on the west side of the fourat rivar were called by the aramians who inhabited the east side of the same river by "al gharbiyyoun"...later on it turned to be "al 3arabiyyoun"..this is in brief

Yemen was first a best place for the uncivilised tribes (the bedou) ..later on those tribes develloped due to the moderate nature of Yemen ..and it is obvious that once yemen is develloped it rejected all kind of "arabic" description...

since the 13 century before jesus christ, all the yemenite Kingdomes never held an arabic title ..ex: the kingdome of Saba2, and Homair, etc...it held the name of its founder or the tribes that took control...

The Middle of the Penensule was an empty desert , with no biological life...

All the criminals and those who oppose the decisions of their goverment had to run to this desert ...coming from all sides...from the bizantian empire (the non chalcedonians) and from yemen , from "palestine" from Perse ..etc those criminals founded tribes and were settled on the famous road of the merchands that relates Yemen and Bilad Cham passing by Hijaz and Mecca...

The Biggest gathering of those gangs was in Mecca...they lived on robbering and steeling and day by day they were able to learn the commerce and they formed their comercial "companies" ...

Those tribes were disperced and each one ot it has her own language , aramian and anbat and persian and yemenite...

during the 5th century after JC , The most powerful tribe headed by Koussay gathered the other tribes and they were known by "Koureich" wich means "The gathering" (al tajammou3) ...and the Launguage of Koureich was the dominant coz at that time each tribes had its poems and his pen and lectures...

this tribe gave birth to the profet of islam...

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by xcoder

do you feel you belong to the same category as saoudis or kuwaitis or egyptiens or maroco...

so you are saying that we don't have anything in common with theses arabic countries !!!!
but the funny thing you are considering them arabic knowing:
-the Pharaonic history of Egypt
-The Berbers history of Morroco
-Iraq and some gulf countries with its more than 5000 year old Assyrian history
-Syria with it's long Aramean history
how come you gave them the terminology of being "arabic" while lebanon is not?
and btw do you consider spain (بلاد الأندلس) as arabic country ?

i can see your point of view that lebanon is a mix but i'll add with arabic majority, but i don't see the need of :

Originally Posted by xcoder

"you're talking about arabism as if arabs were always supporting us and didn't occpy our land and killed our children"

do you know the history of phoenician ? and what they were famous of ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

The word "arab" is a geographical determination

hence i restate the definition of arabs :
"العرب هم من تكلّموا لغة الضاد وهم من الشعوب السامية التي سكنت شبه الجزيرة العربية و المناطق المحيطة بها من بلاد الشام و بلاد ما بين النهرين"

Thank You ...

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by abousoun

so you are saying that we don't have anything in common with theses arabic countries !!!!
but the funny thing you are considering them arabic knowing:
-the Pharaonic history of Egypt
-The Berbers history of Morroco
-Iraq and some gulf countries with its more than 5000 year old Assyrian history
-Syria with it's long Aramean history

Who said i considered them arabic?
i was just showing the difference between Lebanon , KSA , Egypt , Maroco i can't find what you have in common with them other than having an islamic part ino even you can't understand how people speaks in maroco or KSA.

how come you gave them the terminology of being "arabic" while lebanon is not?
and btw do you consider spain (بلاد الأندلس) as arabic country ?

Read again what i said above

i can see your point of view that lebanon is a mix but i'll add with arabic majority, but i don't see the need of :

Yes lebanon is a mix, KSA is not Kuwait is not...
And how did you know that most of lebanese are arabs?
In case it is you just ignored a big part of the country who is not arabic and merged it with the so called "arab world".

do you know the history of phoenician ? and what they were famous of ?

Elaborate please,

hence i restate the definition of arabs :
"العرب هم من تكلّموا لغة الضاد وهم من الشعوب السامية التي سكنت شبه الجزيرة العربية و المناطق المحيطة بها من بلاد الشام و بلاد ما بين النهرين"

Please read well my previous post, i gave you details about the word "arab" you're only going back to the language thingy which prooves nothing.

...وفي الكتابات البالبية وردت جملة "ماتوا اربي" أي "ارض عربي" أو "ارض العرب" ...والمقصود بها : البادية الحافلة بالبدو الذين يعيشون حياة فقر، والذين يعيشون غربي الفرات.

ولهذا سمّى سكان مدن بابل ، اهل البادية بإسم "عمرو" (أو عربوا) أي اهل الغرب، لأن بلادهم واقعة غربي الفرات، وهو اسمهم القديم في بابل...ثم سمّوهم "عريبي" او "عرب" ومعناها ايضاً في اللغة السامية الأصلية "الغربيون" وكانوا يسمون بلادهم "مات عريبي" اي بلاد الغربيين، او بلاد العرب.

Sorry my friend i don't consider myself as badou.
when they were riding camels phonecians were crossing the seas and spreading the alphabet.

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by xcoder

Who said i considered them arabic?
i was just showing the difference between Lebanon , KSA , Egypt , Maroco i can't find what you have in common with them other than having an islamic part ino even you can't understand how people speaks in maroco or KSA.

So you were originally saying that KSA, Egypt, Maroco are not arabic and you were showing that lebanon is different from these non arabic countries to prove that lebanon is not arabic !!!

Originally Posted by xcoder

Read again what i said above

I read that's why i asked

Originally Posted by xcoder

Yes lebanon is a mix, KSA is not Kuwait is not...

Lebanon is a mix, KSA is not and nor is Kuwait and yet above they are not arabic ... what are they ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

And how did you know that most of lebanese are arabs?
In case it is you just ignored a big part of the country who is not arabic and merged it with the so called "arab world".

you have just said that i ignored a big part of the country who is not arabic ... how did you know that most of them are not arabic ?
in case you want to analyze the descedents of the lebanese population now you'll find that the majority are arabic based on the definition i gave earlier ...

Originally Posted by xcoder

Elaborate please,

you were talking about arab history how he wasn't supportive to lebanon and occupied our land and killed our children ... i just want to know your opinion about the phoenician history

Originally Posted by xcoder

Please read well my previous post, i gave you details about the word "arab" you're only going back to the language thingy which prooves nothing.

...وفي الكتابات البالبية وردت جملة "ماتوا اربي" أي "ارض عربي" أو "ارض العرب" ...والمقصود بها : البادية الحافلة بالبدو الذين يعيشون حياة فقر، والذين يعيشون غربي الفرات.

ولهذا سمّى سكان مدن بابل ، اهل البادية بإسم "عمرو" (أو عربوا) أي اهل الغرب، لأن بلادهم واقعة غربي الفرات، وهو اسمهم القديم في بابل...ثم سمّوهم "عريبي" او "عرب" ومعناها ايضاً في اللغة السامية الأصلية "الغربيون" وكانوا يسمون بلادهم "مات عريبي" اي بلاد الغربيين، او بلاد العرب.

first who said that speaking arabic means nothing, second you ignored the second part of the definition :وهم من الشعوب السامية التي سكنت شبه الجزيرة العربية و المناطق المحيطة بها من بلاد الشام و بلاد ما بين النهرين

Originally Posted by xcoder

Sorry my friend i don't consider myself as badou.

arabs = badou then ? which brings us back to بلاد الأندلس
were they arab or not ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

when they were riding camels phonecians were crossing the seas and spreading the alphabet.

by saying riding camels you ignored a large big civilization that arab did, and it's pretty much degrading for them to say that ...
which also brings me back to my previous question ...
do you know what the phoenician were famous of ?

Thank You ...

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by abousoun

So you were originally saying that KSA, Egypt, Maroco are not arabic and you were showing that lebanon is different from these non arabic countries to prove that lebanon is not arabic !!!

I was showing the difference between those countries. KSA and Kuwait are arabic but what lebanon have to do with them or with other countries that you call arabic like maroco.
What do you have in common other than language?

Lebanon is a mix, KSA is not and nor is Kuwait and yet above they are not arabic ... what are they ?

Why is it too hard to understand i am trying to show you the difference between the so called "arabic countries" KSA and Kuwait are arabic but what lebanon and maroco have to go do with the so called arabic thingy?
i didn't expect you to have problem understanding this part lol.

you have just said that i ignored a big part of the country who is not arabic ... how did you know that most of them are not arabic ?

How did you know that the majority in arabic?

in case you want to analyze the descedents of the lebanese population now you'll find that the majority are arabic based on the definition i gave earlier ...

and you'll find that most of them are not arabic for the definition i also gave.

you were talking about arab history how he wasn't supportive to lebanon and occupied our land and killed our children ... i just want to know your opinion about the phoenician history

i am talking about the events in the last century at least.
what did the arabs do to lebanon? while we are like fools working for the "arab cause" that doesn't exist and we shouldn't in the first place.

first who said that speaking arabic means nothing, second you ignored the second part of the definition :وهم من الشعوب السامية التي سكنت شبه الجزيرة العربية
و المناطق المحيطة بها من بلاد الشام و بلاد ما بين النهرين

Once again read the definition in my post. and where it's located. i gave u a big text about this subject!
with details and how the word came and from where and you keep on giving me "bilad al sham"

arabs = badou then ? which brings us back to بلاد الأندلس
were they arab or not ?

The badou were known as arab. you're ignoring the text i posted in arabic for some reasons.

by saying riding camels you ignored a large big civilization that arab did, and it's pretty much degrading for them to say that ...
which also brings me back to my previous question ...
do you know what the phoenician were famous of ?

I am ignoring nothing but you're trying to erase all the phonecian civilization and merge it with desert people that we aren't and that's totally unacceptable.
no please tell me what they were famous of.

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by xcoder

I was showing the difference between those countries. KSA and Kuwait are arabic but what lebanon have to do with them or with other countries that you call arabic like maroco.
What do you have in common other than language?
Why is it too hard to understand i am trying to show you the difference between the so called "arabic countries" KSA and Kuwait are arabic but what lebanon and maroco have to go do with the so called arabic thingy?
i didn't expect you to have problem understanding this part lol.

actually it was you who contradicted yourself earlier
coz you said :

Originally Posted by xcoder

do you feel you belong to the same category as saoudis or kuwaitis or egyptiens or maroco.

first you put ksa, kuwait and egypt and moroc in the same category ... and now ksa, saudi are arabic while moroco is not ... and egypt i don't know yet

Originally Posted by xcoder

How did you know that the majority in arabic?
and you'll find that most of them are not arabic for the definition i also gave.

It's a vicious circle my dear friend ... we can argue indefinetly about that ... but if you want to analyze the descendent of our current population ... the vast majority is arabic

Originally Posted by xcoder

i am talking about the events in the last century at least.
what did the arabs do to lebanon? while we are like fools working for the "arab cause" that doesn't exist and we shouldn't in the first place.

events of last century doesn't erase a long history ... w that's not we are discussing here ... chou 3melo el 3arab lal qadiyye w ma ba3rif chou e5ir hamme bhal discussion w it shouldn't interfere with our judgment ... let your mind be the judge not your feelings

Originally Posted by xcoder

Once again read the definition in my post. and where it's located. i gave u a big text about this subject!
with details and how the word came and from where and you keep on giving me "bilad al sham"

beleive me i didn't invent that word in the definition ... you can check for it over the internet ... the people who lived in shebeh el jazira el 3arabiyye ma dallo mlabssin fiha ya3ne ... ya3ne ma fik t2oul now eno bass elli 2e3din bil chebeh el jazeera w in deserts are the only arab ... ya3ne "جزر القمر" elli b3ide 3an el deserts w chebhe el jazira is not arabic ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

The badou were known as arab. you're ignoring the text i posted in arabic for some reasons.

i'm not ignoring the text you posted bass mish moulzam fih ... if you want i can tell you that el nabi adam was the first one who spoke arabic:

أن آدم عليه السلام أول من نطق بالعربية من بنو البشر العبارتين التاليتين وهما: (الحمدلله بعد خلقه وسريان الروح في رأسة وعطاسة)، (وقوله: وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته عندما رد تحية الملآئكة)، كما ورد في السيرة النبوية لإبن هشام وتاريخ الطبري وابن كثير وابن الأثير وغيرهم من المراجع التاريخية.

do you find yourself obliged to beleive this ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

I am ignoring nothing but you're trying to erase all the phonecian civilization and merge it with desert people that we aren't and that's totally unacceptable.

i didn't say anything about the phonecian civilization w i didn't deny it ... go back to my first post ... and btw it's still degrading to say "desert people" from my point of view

Originally Posted by xcoder

no please tell me what they were famous of.

I won't tell you 5allik proud be your ancestors and i'll be proud with my desert people ::

Thank You ...

[hammerguy]

i personnally think that we're chinese but with bigger eyes due to Darwin's theory :P
seriously i think that it's not an easy matter to deal with, and it would be better to consider some views of great men like Gibran Khalil Gibran
who came from bcharry itself, thus we might come close to some magic formula that answers properly the question.
sincerely

[elly]

i notice that some of u are speakin abt moroccan, saoudien, egyptians...are they arabs or not

AS A MOROCCAN, i'll explain u what's happnin in my contry, u have to know smt, as lebanon morocco has many culture with many origins, we have ; berbers ( ryafa + chlou7+amazeer) + Arabs (truly ones who the grand fothers came from KSA and Yemen a long time ago) + Andalousyeen (who came to morocco after 1492 from Spain) + se7rawa ( pple from the Sa7ara) all those are absolutely different with a specific language, culture, tradition .................and during the colonisation the french want to creat a confessional war through what we call "DAHIR L BARBARI" who separe berber from arabs ....but it didn't work for only one thing bcause we are moroccan all of us, berber or arab, doesn't matter...Personnaly, and I'm a BERBER 100%, that as the prophet Mohamed said an arab is the person who speaks arabic ( MAN KANA LESSANOUHOU 3ARABEYAN).

So be pround of ur culture, yes, be proud of ur nation of course, of ur culture, absolutly but never creat from that a cause to fight...i know that u can't even understand me speakin moroccan and i didn't understand u speakin lebanese B4 but now it's quit easy.

[sha3be]

i think that we are arabs but i dont like being arabian and hav the same classification with ksa and egypt jorden .... but i can t change this , we r arabs cuz we speak arabic simply

[Tawa]

Originally Posted by sha3be

we r arabs cuz we speak arabic simply

People Come On... Somalia People Doesn't Speak Arabic Are They Arabs? I Mean, They Speak African Language... What Are They?