Is Religion Useful?

[Kain]

Nice...i'm familiar with it...but i find it to be very logical.
But the thing is that you're trying to apply the philosophy of the creation to the philosophy of the creator, whereas the creator has unfathomable understanding. How can you begin your argumentation by that?
Logic my friend, as we would agree would be the answer to all.
You're an omnipotent power, none is greater than you are, yet you are concealed to all, and unknown to all, well actually you have no creation in order to be known.
If you were an omnipotent power would you not want to be worshiped? it's not a matter of needing, it's actually a matter of perfection. You're perfect, almight and none can surpass you. You must be worshipped. If that doesn't satisfy you then i know a few people who know more about religion that you could imagine...i would gladly ask them if my answer isn't logical or unsatisfactory.

[Gilgamesh]

Hey Kain....I am confident to tell you that your answer is better than the four sheikhs in a way

But it is a need,it is a desire and that is inconsistent with perfection. The problem is there is no way understand the "god" religions talk about. They have created an Idol they can't prove that he exists and can't explain his nature. The very fact that god is all knowing and all powerful makes the notion of evil along with divine intervention impossible. God of the bible and Koran sound like Saddam Hussien,obsessed with showing his powers and obsessed with the idea of people worshiping him. If there is a God, He certainly is nothing like any religion describes him.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by athegan

The very fact that god is all knowing and all powerful makes the notion of evil along with divine intervention impossible. God of the bible and Koran sound like Saddam Hussien,obsessed with showing his powers and obsessed with the idea of people worshiping him. If there is a God, He certainly is nothing like any religion describes him.

The answer for that lies in the "Does God Exist" thread. Why let evil be??? it is answered there.

And concerning that saddam hussein part. Imagine you're omnipotent. you're all powerful, no one can get to you, and in fact no one can begin to fathom your greatness. You're telling me you wouldn't show off your powers and your greatness to the people who disregard you and go against your every teaching??
You created them and now they're doing whatever they want to do thinking that they're getting away with it, even though you sent thousands of messengers to warn them, be they in Africa, China, Middle East, Amazon, North America, Europe or wherever you want.

You warned them, told them to set themselves straight and they disregarded you, their creator and in fact they insulted and killed your messengers and insulted you.

Think about that...

[Gilgamesh]

Again you can't grab what it means to be all powerful and perfect at the same time... Vengeance is not a part of perfection,hatred is not...these messages fill the Bible and Koran....Lets stick to the Koran cuz u r a muslim, How can god hate his creation when he is perfect...God literally hates pagans, homosexuals, and those who don't believe in him...He orders vengeance against jews and many others... He according to the Koran, has burnt cities with scores of children in them....

Free will is not enough to justify everything humans do....If we are god's creation, he didnt really give us free will enough...We don't choose when and where we are born,where and how we die ( to some extent)...Whereas I believe this is random and happens by chance,you believe that an all good god has a plan for those like the children in africa who die before they are six months old because their mothers are too hungry to breastfeed them and they were born in the first place because their parents are devout catholics who believe using condoms is evil...

Take genetic diseases,I know that they are genetic mutations that happened during the course of evolution cause that is what science proved...You on the other hand don't believe in evolution thus in genetic mutations and prefer to say that a good god preferred to see a child suffer for eight years and then die
...

Man,when you were praying for God to heal the sick we were making medicine to heal people. When you were referring to astrology,we were discovering astronomy. And yes when Galileo said the earth is not flat he was prosecuted as a heretic by the Pope.The main problem with religion is it makes you satisfied with unsatisfactory answers. Instead of pursuing science and knowledge, you explain everything as it is written in an ancient book. It is the reason of ignorance.

[FriendOfZeus]

Do you know why i believe that religion is wrong? Because diversity exists in the world, and it is the in the core of our societies and history. Without diversity and change we would be transformed to nothing but similar robots. Now what do most religions opt to do? What do they preach for? What is their aim? Their goals are to convert the unreligious to their faiths...recruit the people from other religions to theirs. Now if u look to a single of fact amongst all religions; its the fact that all of them want to convert all of the humans to their "seamingly" rightheous cause. Now if islams calling succeeds, and all of mankind is muslim. Now wouldnt we have lost the very thing that makes us human? Wouldnt we have lost our diversity, our colours, our point of views.

[Justin]

Religion is useful for basic guidelines to life... I think it can help ppl through tough times & help them make gd choices... It's when ppl misconstrue what religion is suppose to be where it can go very wrong... no one likes to walk blindly 4 fear of walkin' off a mountain... Faith with a healthy suspicion is the best course... Walk with the one or walk alone...
You may see many religions in this whole world, some believe in God & others worship THINGS... but weither we like it or not, even if u think that others are wrong but they AIN'T... All religions know that killing others is WRONG, that Stealing is wrong, bashing, threating others, suicide is also wrong... etc... Its just rules that u should follow to make ur life EASIER & Happier, the more it was easier the more u succeed the more u reach ur GOD

PS: if u need a delusion to keep u from stealing my car, plz continue to believe...

[Kain]

Originally Posted by athegan

Again you can't grab what it means to be all powerful and perfect at the same time... Vengeance is not a part of perfection,hatred is not...these messages fill the Bible and Koran....

Oh and you know what it means to be all powerful and/ or perfect? Again you're applying human feelings on an all powerful GOD. Vengeance is justified when it's righteous, and so can hatred. If you hate it doesn't mean you're not perfect. Rightful vengeance, rightful hatred and rightful anger isn't wrong.

Originally Posted by athegan

Lets stick to the Koran cuz u r a muslim, How can god hate his creation when he is perfect...God literally hates pagans, homosexuals, and those who don't believe in him...He orders vengeance against jews and many others... He according to the Koran, has burnt cities with scores of children in them....

God's creations deviated from the path they were assigned to and the natural order of things in spit of several warnings. Take Noah, and The prophet Lout for instance (which is where the name Louwat came from...his people were homosexual and his warnings were not heeded.)
The creation has deviated from the righteous path, it was given a choice, and it took the wrong one, going against its creator. Fine by me.
And regarding children, God has knowledge of all.
1- If the children were going to grow up to be sinners like their parents then they could be punished. But instead God would take them to heaven, as these children could not comprehend the world and were not responsible for their choices. Get me the aya where it says that God killed those children. I want to see it.
As for the jews they are the biggest hypocrites of all as the Coran says. You've read the Coran 11 times, i'm sure you know what they're like.

Originally Posted by athegan

If we are god's creation, he didnt really give us free will enough...We don't choose when and where we are born,where and how we die ( to some extent)...

No actually we were given a choice, you were shiite, ever heard of " 3alam l tharr"??? You should have since you looked long and hard.
P.S: 3alam l tharr is actually scientifically proven.

Originally Posted by athegan

You on the other hand don't believe in evolution thus in genetic mutations and prefer to say that a good god preferred to see a child suffer for eight years and then die

Goes back to 3alam l tharr actually. It's a long subject.

Originally Posted by athegan

Man,when you were praying for God to heal the sick we were making medicine to heal people. When you were referring to astrology,we were discovering astronomy. And yes when Galileo said the earth is not flat he was prosecuted as a heretic by the Pope.The main problem with religion is it makes you satisfied with unsatisfactory answers. Instead of pursuing science and knowledge, you explain everything as it is written in an ancient book. It is the reason of ignorance.

We brought you miracles, we brought you the medicine you're currently studying, we brought you astronomy ( Astrology in islam?? "كذب المنجّمون و لو صدقوا")
The answers are more than satisfactory, tell me what answers Atheism has given us?? Science only gave answers to stuff we already knew.

[Medusa]

Everything have Positive and Negative effects w religion is a sensible case in all the world , cz it's a base for ppl ya3ne bye3tebrouwa mabda2 w bi def3o 3anno !! we have just to accept the other as he is : CHouf l Fares2 bala ma tfare2 ! and here we are in a peaceful world ( heyda akid bel a7leim )

[Gilgamesh]

Sherrif Justin, The matter of fact is that if our holy books are applied literally,instead of stealing your car that person might kill u or burn u on the stake just because you don't believe in his god or you pray in a different way than he does...


Kain...u r not even giving reasons for what you assert...Science only answered things we know,religion made medicine....sorry but that is bullshit....muslims used to poke a hole in someone's head if his headache stays more than three days,christians in europe tied schizophrenic people to chairs and performed exorcisms on them...THAT is the medicine religion gave us? You actually believe that we were made from mud and sent here from heaven because Adam ate an apple....It is a fairy tale man,evolution is what really happened..We were apes,it is a scientific FACT....you know facts,things that can be proven not fairy tales about people flying to the sky and turning water into wine....Grow up ppl

Vengeance and hatred are weaknesses and not a part of perfection...that's how i see it...

LOL...3alam l thar...the funniest religious idea i ever heard.....pseudo-science and pseudo-metaphysics

[Kain]

3alam l tharr is a scientific fact wether you like it or not.

Medicine: Read the books the imams wrote, i believe al imam Ja3far l sadek 3alayhi l salam wrote it.

Vengeance in hatred are weaknesses when MISUSED and UNRIGHTFUL. Not when it's righteous.
Grow up.
And Be Careful, as an ex-shiite you know the shiite view of islam and the sunni view. If you want to prove to me that atheism is right tell me something one of the 12 imams or the prophet has done wrong. Give me specific answers too and assert them. I am a religious shiite, criticizing the alawist or salafist or whoever's point of view other than my own sect wouldn't convince me because you're not debating MY beliefs. Same for the other members you're trying to convince.