Speaking Ill of the Dead...

[Gilgamesh]

Okay two points should be pointed out here to you Sheriff:

1- In some cases,at least the one I am thinking off, the facts are offensive enough. When I say bash him or attack him, I mean attack his actions, the kinda legacy he left behind.

2- Mesh 3am besta2we 3ala mayyet. But the point of legacy is so important, someone's actions don't die out with him. Ten years or maybe twenty after the guy's death, a person who was a teenager when the assassination happened will grow up to be a politician and might place that deceased guy as his idol. If his actions were destructive or at least a form of disservice for the country, this should be pointed out,harshly enough for the message to get through despite of the fact that he died, it is his line of action and the future generations that might follow such actions that I am concerned about.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by athegan

Okay two points should be pointed out here to you Sheriff:

1- In some cases,at least the one I am thinking off, the facts are offensive enough. When I say bash him or attack him, I mean attack his actions, the kinda legacy he left behind.

2- Mesh 3am besta2we 3ala mayyet. But the point of legacy is so important, someone's actions don't die out with him. Ten years or maybe twenty after the guy's death, a person who was a teenager when the assassination happened will grow up to be a politician and might place that deceased guy as his idol. If his actions were destructive or at least a form of disservice for the country, this should be pointed out,harshly enough for the message to get through despite of the fact that he died, it is his line of action and the future generations that might follow such actions that I am concerned about.

What he said........

[Justin]

No one wastes goodbyes on dead politicians

let me give u an e.g: Living poets always respect Dead poets... alright? but living politicians turn Dead politicians into scapegoats, deserved or not... which means, u wanna be a politician u will be absolutely criticised... ever heard of a politician loved by the whole lebanese ppl??? 2ein2ein... the difference in here is the way u see that politician let's take some e.g:

SHN, some say he is political more than he is a prophet.. others says its vice versa... he won against Israel, others said he didnt and some said he did & both of these opinions were took by witnesses, they lived the situation but through different views... so u see, men gher el shar lamma yetwafa el zalame, he will be criticised for his actions... my questions goes for Kain, do u accept the fact someone criticise SHN after his death? if so, why? u know he's popular but some lebanese do not like him (im not one of them)... some will criticise him & say he brought war, huwe el sabab la 7atta ddammar el ektisad nihe2iyan... so u see, he will be criticised but NOT BASHED!!... fi fare2, fare2 ben lamma totla3 tehki now on TV w t2oul inta sewet wa7ad tnen tlete... w fare2 ben lamma yetwaffa w yotla3 hadan y2ul "meshekle w 5losna menna, bel na2is wa7ad, 5ay met ma sadda2na kif 5losna menno..." do u accept the fact someone who talks like this??

I reformulate it again athegan, you and I can have different views on the same person, u can look at one situation through 2 different rearviews... this doesnt give u & I the right to bash this guy when he is dead...

[Kain]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Justin

SHN, some say he is political more than he is a prophet.. others says its vice versa... he won against Israel, others said he didnt and some said he did & both of these opinions were took by witnesses, they lived the situation but through different views... so u see, men gher el shar lamma yetwafa el zalame, he will be criticised for his actions... my questions goes for Kain, do u accept the fact someone criticise SHN after his death? if so, why? u know he's popular but some lebanese do not like him (im not one of them)... some will criticise him & say he brought war, huwe el sabab la 7atta ddammar el ektisad nihe2iyan... so u see, he will be criticised but NOT BASHED!!... fi fare2, fare2 ben lamma totla3 tehki now on TV w t2oul inta sewet wa7ad tnen tlete... w fare2 ben lamma yetwaffa w yotla3 hadan y2ul "meshekle w 5losna menna, bel na2is wa7ad, 5ay met ma sadda2na kif 5losna menno..." do u accept the fact someone who talks like this?

He is already being bashed for that. Let them do what they want. I know i'm upholding justice and they're not. In any case, it all goes back to freedom of speech. If they died bashing those who served justice 7sebon 3and Allah.
I may not like it but they'll do it anyway w again...7sebon 3and Allah.

[Justin]

u said it urself, u do not like it.. u may not express ur feelings towards what they say but some ppl might lose control w ykasroulo rasso la yalli bye7e 3ano hek (for e.g. a family member or an HA supporter)... so u see, its not about freedom of speech, fi limits la kel shi... we call it RESPECT

if u wanna disrespect someone, let it be when he is alive, kun rejjel w oul eddemo:P... even though i hate the whole disrespect issue.. but I take it as this: "I dont like to be disrespected after my death, w yalli ma be2balo 3a 7ale ma be2balo 3a ghayre law add ma ken mejrim"... u said 7sebo 3and ALLAH!!... so why bashing him??? bel niheye 7sebo 3and ALLAH

[Kain]

It's relative. Goes back to how different people think different things. He's not demanding their respect. Bas if they're blind to justice it's their problem.
Let them go ahead and say what they want i may not like it but i've heard it tons of times and i have learned to be careless of such things
I know that i'm following the righteous path by supporting Hezbollah and SHN.
7sebon 3and rabbon w 7sebe 3and rabbe
That's all i have to say on the matter and i'm sticking to that conviction.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Kain

I know that i'm following the righteous path by supporting Hezbollah and SHN.
7sebon 3and rabbon w 7sebe 3and rabbe
That's all i have to say on the matter and i'm sticking to that conviction.

Dude, I got ur point ma ken asde estafezzak bas 7abbet 7otak bi we2i3 eno some ppl aint mature, like me... When my father dies w yeje wa7ad yehke 3ano bel 3atil law min ma ken ykun w law shu ma 3emil baye ma3o ghalat... dont think I would sit back relax and say: "7sebak 3and Allah".. I just open a cans of whoop ass on that dude... not all ppl can hold down their blood pressure like you do... u may not accept the fact that he said this, but mish a7san eza ma 7eke hek menel awal? ma ken raya7 7alo w raya7 ghayro?? that's why I am saying RESPECT!!... just respect the guy no matter how bad he was, inte akbar men ma tseb wa7ad..

[Kain]

Mesh 2osset sabb!! 2osset enno eza hayda l ensen zalamne he deserved what he had coming!! he will be judged by his actions. W that's that.
Same way Walid Eido is judged by his famous " baddna nbi3 dammna la neshtere sle7 w la nemna3on men enno yesta2wo 3layna" ( or something like that )
Same way Rafic l Hariri is remembered for the solidaire scandals and the sudden increase in what he had in his bank account ( by 10 billion dollars).
Same way bashar and 7afez l Assad will always be hated and bashed by the lebanese families they have wronged and by the families of the prisoners in syria, same goes to Yasser Arafat.
Zalamo 3alam w ba3don l 3alam 3am bi 3ano la halla2 men hal zolom. El 3alam ela 7a22 te7ke 3a yalli zalama law 3ayish aw mayyit!!!
If someone robbed my house and i found out who he is after he died i'm supposed to keep quiet because he has a family or let alone RESPECT him??? I don't care who he is!! HE WRONGED ME and messed with my livelihood and my life's stability. That's what it comes down to!

[Gilgamesh]

First of all, I don't care whether others agree with my criticism of whoever is the deceased and frankly don't care if they are offended..I have stated it and will state it again, freedom of expression is the most sacred doctrine I behold for any system,once that is compromised everything follows. When you attack someone with words and he/she responds with some psychotic chaotic behavior it is not your fault, it is theirs. They apparently hold weak indefensable positions which can only be protected by violence.

e.g I respect SHN a lot and wasn't happy when basmet watan ridiculed him but I would gladly have died defending their right to express their view in any peaceful way they see appropriate. If they do it again after his death, I would be more than unhappy, but it is their right to express their view. The sooner Lebanese ppl accept these notions the sooner they will learn to be more honest with each other and understand each other instead of hiding behind sacred walls and red lines. Nothing is above criticism and argument between partners of the same nation, even dead "heroes" and "symbols of sects"

[Kain]

I support what u said except

Originally Posted by athegan

e.g I respect SHN a lot and wasn't happy when basmet watan ridiculed him but I would gladly have died defending their right to express their view in any peaceful way they see appropriate. If they do it again after his death, I would be more than unhappy, but it is their right to express their view.

I understand what you mean and back then i didn't understand what the protest was all about but soon enough i found out that it was in violation of the law concerning " al e3lan l mar2i wal masmoo3"...not sure about the details though