To Samir geagea & Amin gemayel : Merry Christmas !

[El-Meghwar]

Originally Posted by athegan

Although you are right 100 % on the treason committed by whoever criticized their country or HA in anyway at time of war, the point made by IBIN BATTOUTA has not been answered. It would be naive not to notice the timing of the escalation and draw conclusions of it. Why not two months earlier? a year earlier? a year later? HA don't choose their moves in a chaotic manner and the pattern of times chosen to disrupt the relatively calm border otherwise is indeed gravely important to study and even more significant is the political climate,regionally and nationally at the time on which the disruptions occurred.


Peace

some people are really funny !! they throw an idea and believe it like it was the truth.
DUDE i don't think that Hezbollah kidnapped 2 israeli animals on 12 july in order to make a war !!! Hezbollah was able to kidnap the two animals on 12 july 2006 and they would have done it before or after two monthes or a year earlier or later if they had the chance !!!!

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

Although you are right 100 % on the treason committed by whoever criticized their country or HA in anyway at time of war, the point made by IBIN BATTOUTA has not been answered. It would be naive not to notice the timing of the escalation and draw conclusions of it. Why not two months earlier? a year earlier? a year later? HA don't choose their moves in a chaotic manner and the pattern of times chosen to disrupt the relatively calm border otherwise is indeed gravely important to study and even more significant is the political climate,regionally and nationally at the time on which the disruptions occurred.


Peace

man you answered yourself in your question ... HA don't choose their moves in a chaotic manner ... the naive thing is to think that kidnapping a soldier or two can take place by just a wink or an order from here or there ... HA as said many times have been trying to kidnap soldiers for exchange coz it's the only way to release the prisoners from isra2ili dungeons ...
Asking about Timing ... you said it disrupted the relatively calm border ... so borders weren't calm la 2 months earlier or one year earlier or one year later probably ...
do you know how long it took HA to do the operation agaisnt "3a2l hachem" ? and how many time it was postponed and delayed ? and back then it was easier coz there were no colorful lines ... it's not like bird hunting ... it needs planning, putting strategies, studing moves, etc ...
and only ignorant can think it can happen by just a wink just to help the iranian nuclean plan, or facilitate the comeback of syria or to kill the international tribune (did any of this happened?)

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

man you answered yourself in your question ... HA don't choose their moves in a chaotic manner ... the naive thing is to think that kidnapping a soldier or two can take place by just a wink or an order from here or there ... HA as said many times have been trying to kidnap soldiers for exchange coz it's the only way to release the prisoners from isra2ili dungeons ...
Asking about Timing
and only ignorant can think it can happen by just a wink just to help the iranian nuclean plan, or facilitate the comeback of syria or to kill the international tribune (did any of this happened?)

Thank You ...

I never said a wink, only simple-minded ppl love explanations as "an order came from Iran" and I, as you, laugh my heart out when I hear such explanations. But I still don't believe that it is only a matter of military ability or tactics that interferes with the decision, although that we all admit is a factor. If HA responds to regional changes by playing its part out of deep convictions, no one can argue that is the same as taking orders. I didn't carry an anti-HA propaganda in my post. But to say that their decision on when to carry their militant activities is somehow separate or even immune from the national or regional scene and changes seems to be awfully unrealistic.

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

I never said a wink, only simple-minded ppl love explanations as "an order came from Iran" and I, as you, laugh my heart out when I hear such explanations. But I still don't believe that it is only a matter of military ability or tactics that interferes with the decision, although that we all admit is a factor. If HA responds to regional changes by playing its part out of deep convictions, no one can argue that is the same as taking orders. I didn't carry an anti-HA propaganda in my post. But to say that their decision on when to carry their militant activities is somehow separate or even immune from the national or regional scene and changes seems to be awfully unrealistic.

It's not a secret from anybody that HA in order to release prisinors have to kidnap soldiers ... Israel and the united nations resolutions never gave us anything la saweid 3youna or by just convicting them ... if this was a first then i'll be surprised just as you or let's say suspicious not surprised ... but it's not the case ...
if you want to correlate the timing of this incident ... then correlate every other operation that happened before ... there was always national, regional and international conflicts ... there were and there will always be ...
and beleive me if it happened a year later or year before ... we will be having the same conversation ... eno we are living in Lebanon, in the middle east, in the middle of the crisis for decades ... chou tghayyar ?
the only thing that changed is we aren't afraid of Israel coz HA showed us that it's "2awhan min beit el 3ankabout" ...
You say it's not just military abilities or tactics ... i say it's mainly military abilities and tactics ... coz the international political atmoshpere towards the middle east is the same or even get worsed after 9/11

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

if you want to correlate the timing of this incident ... then correlate every other operation that happened before ... there was always national, regional and international conflicts ... there were and there will always be ...
and beleive me if it happened a year later or year before ... we will be having the same conversation ... eno we are living in Lebanon, in the middle east, in the middle of the crisis for decades ... chou tghayyar ?
the only thing that changed is we aren't afraid of Israel coz HA showed us that it's "2awhan min beit el 3ankabout" ...
You say it's not just military abilities or tactics ... i say it's mainly military abilities and tactics ... coz the international political atmoshpere towards the middle east is the same or even get worsed after 9/11

Thank You ...

Well yeah, I want to study every military activity by HA after the 2000 Israeli withdrawal. Although the area is unstable all the time, it is small changes that trigger responses. It does seem if you follow closely,for example, that the American-Iranian relations are better this month than two months ago, even thought their relation is bad in general. It is not about orders, it is like what happened in Annapolis. When a consensus on temporary stability is achieved for some reason, like establishing peace talks, the whole area including HA calms down. And when certain a party of the conflicting parties needs to pressure others, instability arises. It is crystal clear if you follow news and it makes sense, actually it can't go any other way if you think of it.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

some people are really funny !! they throw an idea and believe it like it was the truth.
DUDE i don't think that Hezbollah kidnapped 2 israeli animals on 12 july in order to make a war !!! Hezbollah was able to kidnap the two animals on 12 july 2006 and they would have done it before or after two monthes or a year earlier or later if they had the chance !!!!

2 things you have to look at.
the timing which put an end to any further dialogue and put the whole country in this impass.
the blue line violation........though HA was limiting his operations to the shebaa farms area.......
the blue line violation made the intl community consider this violation as an aggression not a resistance act.....

both timing and blue line violation.......meant that HA did what he did to stop any dialogue related to his integration.
as for mentioning israeli aggressions.........
it reminds me of 1975 - 1990 whereas every christian had to declare on daily basis that.............please.....please......believe we are arabs.

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

2 things you have to look at.
the timing which put an end to any further dialogue and put the whole country in this impass.
the blue line violation........though HA was limiting his operations to the shebaa farms area.......
the blue line violation made the intl community consider this violation as an aggression not a resistance act.....

both timing and blue line violation.......meant that HA did what he did to stop any dialogue related to his integration.
as for mentioning israeli aggressions.........
it reminds me of 1975 - 1990 whereas every christian had to declare on daily basis that.............please.....please......believe we are arabs.

Our blue skies are being violated more than 10 times daily. what did the UN do about this matter? why you never worry about such matters?
Stop living in lala land dude, the israeli massacres were not even mentioned as acts against humanity.
if the resolution 425 was applied by israel nothing of that would have happened in the first place.
stop blaming Lebanese and Hizbullah for the acts of israel that you never mention or criticize.
this cheap mentality should be changed in Lebanon, we can even see people visiting the world's capitals and become slaves to other countries just to get support against other Lebanese. we have seen it during the syrian occupation and now.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by xcoder

Our blue skies are being violated more than 10 times daily. what did the UN do about this matter? why you never worry about such matters?
Stop living in lala land dude, the israeli massacres were not even mentioned as acts against humanity.
if the resolution 425 was applied by israel nothing of that would have happened in the first place.
stop blaming Lebanese and Hizbullah for the acts of israel that you never mention or criticize.
this cheap mentality should be changed in Lebanon, we can even see people visiting the world's capitals and become slaves to other countries just to get support against other Lebanese. we have seen it during the syrian occupation and now.

you did not get my point.
you want me to dance or what?.
allah w akbar......and israel is the devilish enemy.
am i clear now?.
but still.....who gave HA the right?.
i have a government which did not have a hint.
march 14 ......did not have a hint.
march 8 including the general i voted for in 2005......did not have a hint.

if SHN is the one to take decisions for all of us....
let's elect him a president......appoint him a prime minister....and as house speaker.

if we want to build a country..
let's hold him accountable for what he did....
because there is govt....parliament..and president to take war and peace decisions.
and there is a lebanese army to fight my holy wars.

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

you did not get my point.
you want me to dance or what?.
allah w akbar......and israel is the devilish enemy.
am i clear now?.
but still.....who gave HA the right?.
i have a government which did not have a hint.
march 14 ......did not have a hint.
march 8 including the general i voted for in 2005......did not have a hint.

if SHN is the one to take decisions for all of us....
let's elect him a president......appoint him a prime minister....and as house speaker.

if we want to build a country..
let's hold him accountable for what he did....
because there is govt....parliament..and president to take war and peace decisions.
and there is a lebanese army to fight my holy wars.

What can i do if your government gave them the right to do that in bayen wizareh? what can i do if they had the "ok" during the national dialog?
What i m doing is trying to find a solution for that weapon in a strategic defensive way to insure that israel won't come in and slaughter my children whenever it feels like, and in the other hand keep the decision in the hand of the Lebanese authorities that's how we seek Lebanon interest not attack the weapon that was defending the people of the south for quite along and try to take it off without benefiting from it just to please Israel and the U.S and for some political points.
Read the MOU, try to understand it and you will find a bright clear solution for all these matters. but the solution is not required in Lebanon to keep the foreign hands ruling the country and use it as a card in the middle east dirty game.
Hizbullah said it clear, i am ready to discuss the matter of my weapon in a national government that has the trust of most of Lebanese. the question is... why not?
Yes the decision of such thing should not be made by Hizbullah alone but by all Lebanese. But the fact of blaming Hizbullah for the masscares made by Israel and the war launched by Israel is just very cheap.
(i don't want you to dance, i want you to think).

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by xcoder

What can i do if your government gave them the right to do that in bayen wizareh? what can i do if they had the "ok" during the national dialog?
(i don't want you to dance, i want you to think).

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