Dignity of Labor

[Gilgamesh]

....However, in order that labor might have a claim on titles of honor, it would be necessary above all, that existence itself, to which labor after all is only a painful means, should have more dignity and value than it appears to have had, up to the present, to serious philosophies and religions. What else may we find in the labor-need of all the millions but the impulse to exist at any price, the same all-powerful impulse by which stunted plants stretch their roots through earthless rocks!

The quote above is from Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Greek State". The point he tries to make in this Essay is that work and labor have no dignity, honor, or liking between humans. It is something we do ONLY because we have to do as a means for existence. He explains how even artists, poems, musicians....are the same as well.

Do you agree? Do you think there is a reason to work beyond the need to work? Would you live an idle life when it comes to work if you could? Do you think some jobs can be considered as lacking any honor and are only done as a means for existence while others are more enjoyable and done for other reasons? Specify which...

Peace

[abousoun]

Why do we work ?
I think any answer that doesn't include "for money "is faulty ...
I agree that it's a means for existence ... you work you get money, you provide food on your table and a roof over your head ...

I think this is the way the most are raised ... parents work hard to put their kids in good schools , graduate from good college to get good jobs to get a better check at the end of month to provide a good life to their family ... and the cycle goes on ...

halla2 the cycle could be broke if you inherit or win lottery or whatever that provides you the basic of living without the need of work, but here also we can still see that some will also work ... which bring the fact that work isn't only a means for existence (in most time it is), but it's also a way to express individuality, professionalism, recognition, pride, passion etc ...

so in that case i don't agree that work and labor have no dignity, honor, or liking between humans, even though it has no liking between the majority (heik i guess) coz if you ask the majority about their jobs, few will say that they are satisfied and many aren't ... but this doesn't remove the elements of dignity and honor from them regardless to what kind of job you are doing ...

coz it's not what you are doing , it's how you are doing it ...

“Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. But I say to you that when you work you fulfill a part of earth's furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, and in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life...”
جبران خليل جبران

so el 3omor byo5lass w el cheghel ma byo5lass and we should love life

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

Why do we work ?
I think any answer that doesn't include "for money "is faulty ...
I agree that it's a means for existence ... you work you get money, you provide food on your table and a roof over your head ...

I think this is the way the most are raised ... parents work hard to put their kids in good schools , graduate from good college to get good jobs to get a better check at the end of month to provide a good life to their family ... and the cycle goes on ...

halla2 the cycle could be broke if you inherit or win lottery or whatever that provides you the basic of living without the need of work, but here also we can still see that some will also work ... which bring the fact that work isn't only a means for existence (in most time it is), but it's also a way to express individuality, professionalism, recognition, pride, passion etc ...

so in that case i don't agree that work and labor have no dignity, honor, or liking between humans, even though it has no liking between the majority (heik i guess) coz if you ask the majority about their jobs, few will say that they are satisfied and many aren't ... but this doesn't remove the elements of dignity and honor from them regardless to what kind of job you are doing ...

coz it's not what you are doing , it's how you are doing it ...

“Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. But I say to you that when you work you fulfill a part of earth's furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, and in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life...”
جبران خليل جبران

so el 3omor byo5lass w el cheghel ma byo5lass and we should love life

Thank You ...

I agree on most of what you said...I wish I could put the whole essay especially the part where he explains how even the job of a poet and artist of all sorts lie to themselves when they say that what they do is a noble art and that sorta thing and he refers to many quotes from Greek poets to support his claim...

I think any job that lacks the necessity of a creative artistic sense in it practitioner and rely only on skills (including high profile ones like Engineers and Doctors) become boring and done only for the money in a couple of years of practice at most....

As for dignity, Nietzsche meant that the fact that we HAVE to work to survive robs the dignity of any job because we become slaves to that job (slaves of necessity and dependability )...I don't agree with him but I don't know why

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

As for dignity, Nietzsche meant that the fact that we HAVE to work to survive robs the dignity of any job because we become slaves to that job (slaves of necessity and dependability )...I don't agree with him but I don't know why

I can understand that point of view, as the slave is dependent on his master for survival ... you become dependent on your work (which become the master) and hence you becomes the slave ...
I don't know if Nietzsche felt the same way when he was a professor at Basel, but i think his dignity was or should've been more traumatized when he spent his late life depending on his mother for survival (he was sick, i'll excuse him )

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

I can understand that point of view, as the slave is dependent on his master for survival ... you become dependent on your work (which become the master) and hence you becomes the slave ...
I don't know if Nietzsche felt the same way when he was a professor at Basel, but i think his dignity was or should've been more traumatized when he spent his late life depending on his mother for survival (he was sick, i'll excuse him )

Thank You ...

He collapsed mentally man..howwe ken 3aref 7alo when bel ekher This essay is before he lost his mind and knowing how he lectured (his students hated him), you will know that yes he hated his job but had to do it when he was young...

[abousoun]

Yeah i know in his late life was mentally sick ... that's why i excused him ...
but it was a contre-example iza baddak
where you'll feel more dignified?
- in a work that you hate or you don't but you must do it for survival ?
- or doing nothing and maybe doing a lot of things but not enough for your survival and at the end of day you need someone else to provide you the basic of living in other words you are dependent ?

Thank You ...