Stolen Speeches

[Justin]

Ladies n Gentlemen,we all hear opinions, comments, views and specially SPEECHES... Most of the political speeches are written by someone's advocate or associate that express what the ppl need to hear or want to hear. And some others, called it like they see it...

But, sometimes we hear some stolen words or speech taken from books, quotes or even old speeches said by others...

anyhow, i was asking icemaker's help over msn to find an appropriate question to post in here... and he gave me an answer for new questions to be asked... he said:

Originally Posted by Justin

[resuming].....does this affect the trust among the political leader and his "followers"???

Originally Posted by icemaker

man 3leye w 3lek b 2asser bas 3ala cha3eb lebnen ma b2asser cuz law b2aser ken kel l cha3eb FPM lol and they dont listen they dont read... all they care about is hate and sectarian thinking, got it ?

Basically long story short, do u think he is right by saying that lebanese ppl has absolute NOOO KNOWLEDGE in politics and that they follow for the sake of revenge or hate for someone against their religious sect??

... Share Wit' Us

[-t-o-n-y-]

yes....it's not something new...kello nkeyet....u see people with fpm just becuz they hate lf.....people with lf cuz they hate fpm...u rarely find people that look on the plans and mcheri3 of the party....and that's why most of the parties when their ""leader"" die byeferto...and u hear from people that their with kataeb for example cuz they like the jmayil family...enno what's that have to do with politics....the same thing for jumblat and those......plus the parties in here are built on secterianism(95% of them) so people will get affected by them especially if they have no political knowledge and eza "met3asbin" or mnghel2in like they don't accept the one that have other opinion and in this case other religion....

[Gilgamesh]

People in Lebanon have no options..lets imagine this scenario...I wanted to go join a political party, what options do I have?

1- Old political secular parties who have made no changes although the ideas they are based on have fallen in the whole world (The political parties of the 60's and 70's affected by communism, 3abd l'naser wel kawmeyye l 3arabeyye)

2- Christian Sectarian Parties ( LF, Kate2eb and the sort... I can't join those even if I wanted to

3- 'Muslim' non-shiite Parties: You have two druze, well three if you count we2im wahhab's party , again, I can't join them even if I wanted to. Sunni Political parties that don't fit under the first group are FM (I knew some shiites there who joined in the days of Friend of the Silky, they left the party naturally now), local parties whose interests extend only over one city (Omar Karami and Safadi in Tripoli, Bezri in Saida...) and finally Salafist Parties I like the idea of a Shiite applying to join a salafist party

4- Armenian Parties: Yeah exactly where I would fit in, do they even talk arabic in their meetings ?

5- Newer parties: These are parties that everyone knows will never matter Hidden under glorious names and they are nothing but ghost parties for some political figures. (haraket l yasar l demokrate, haraket l sha3eb, hezb l taw7id....)

6- FPM: Well lets just say this here. It will take me more than four years to forget Aoun's old stances on just about everything. That Orange book was really something. I am happy that he is an ally and happy with his stances, but joining his party would be going too far. Thats number one. Number two is that there is a lot of social issues I would disagree on with Aoun, if not now, later in the future. Number three, FPM is not a secular party, it is a party with secular ideals but still when we get closer to every elections we hear the same words. GMA near every elections, and out of all issues, starts concetrating on issues like the authority of the first president( using words like 'ed3af l markaz l masi7e l awwal')....It was so obvious in the elections in which Amine l'Jmayyel lost..

7- Shiite parties: There are only two parties...as we all know...and here are my only two options...

Follow the same logic for your own sect and you will see how few your options are. In some cases you get like only one option So whether the people you end up with are stealing their speeches or they are pure liars, they might be your only option..

[Mak]

ur almost right in everything, except ! ! :
As for FPM , u dont need 2 be a christian to join it, you only need 2 be patriotic.
We are fighting for a secular lebanon, which is not the case @ the moment. and as discussed before , GMA fights for every weak sector of the community, let me explain that in details :
Dont we all remember when GMA fought for the PM's rights? or when he fought for the armenian rights to have there own powerfull bloc ?
or when he and Sayyid HN, made the historical allience , he wasn't fighting for the right of the shiite ppl to live in peace?
i guess i made it clear, As an FPMer i didn't join FPM bcoz GMA is the leader, but bcz i have faith that no matter who will be our leader, he will always be working the same way as GMA is doing right now.
So my friend you have only two options, its either u want a healthy strong free Lebanon.... OR you want a lebanon who can be bought with money and with blood. Dont choose ur own lebanon, choose the lebanon you wish for ur children, or the lebanon ur parents wished for you.
Dont just remember what bad things they did 2 u ... but what they might to do ur children.

Vote Orange for a Healthy LEBANON

[General]

Originally Posted by deAtheganized

People in Lebanon have no options..lets imagine this scenario...I wanted to go join a political party, what options do I have?

1- Old political secular parties who have made no changes although the ideas they are based on have fallen in the whole world (The political parties of the 60's and 70's affected by communism, 3abd l'naser wel kawmeyye l 3arabeyye)

2- Christian Sectarian Parties ( LF, Kate2eb and the sort... I can't join those even if I wanted to

3- 'Muslim' non-shiite Parties: You have two druze, well three if you count we2im wahhab's party , again, I can't join them even if I wanted to. Sunni Political parties that don't fit under the first group are FM (I knew some shiites there who joined in the days of Friend of the Silky, they left the party naturally now), local parties whose interests extend only over one city (Omar Karami and Safadi in Tripoli, Bezri in Saida...) and finally Salafist Parties I like the idea of a Shiite applying to join a salafist party

4- Armenian Parties: Yeah exactly where I would fit in, do they even talk arabic in their meetings ?

5- Newer parties: These are parties that everyone knows will never matter Hidden under glorious names and they are nothing but ghost parties for some political figures. (haraket l yasar l demokrate, haraket l sha3eb, hezb l taw7id....)

6- FPM: Well lets just say this here. It will take me more than four years to forget Aoun's old stances on just about everything. That Orange book was really something. I am happy that he is an ally and happy with his stances, but joining his party would be going too far. Thats number one. Number two is that there is a lot of social issues I would disagree on with Aoun, if not now, later in the future. Number three, FPM is not a secular party, it is a party with secular ideals but still when we get closer to every elections we hear the same words. GMA near every elections, and out of all issues, starts concetrating on issues like the authority of the first president( using words like 'ed3af l markaz l masi7e l awwal')....It was so obvious in the elections in which Amine l'Jmayyel lost..

7- Shiite parties: There are only two parties...as we all know...and here are my only two options...

Follow the same logic for your own sect and you will see how few your options are. In some cases you get like only one option So whether the people you end up with are stealing their speeches or they are pure liars, they might be your only option..

FPM seeks balance among the lebanese religions and sects in order to reach the دولة مدنية faster where all of the guys and girls are being represented anywhere at anytime without any discrimination. when the sunna are in trouble, aoun talks about it, when the chi3a are in trouble aoun talks about it when the christians are in trouble aoun talks about it...

examples:

Sunna of akkar's discrimination, no one but aoun talked about it.

july war on chi3a, aoun offered everything to the people from the south in order to survive

Saudi war on the christians through hariri and co. aoun did everything to keep the christians alive, and concerning the presidency issue, he was right. why can't we talk about the ra2is majles nouweb and the prime minister but we can curse the president?

now, going back to FPM on the ground as ministers...
Jebran Bassil lowered the costs of phones for all the lebanese not just for the christians on keserwen jbeil

Alain Tabourian (FPM's ally) did something good for the electricty where all the lebanese share it equally

Mario Aoun found many moustawsafet in all of the lebanese regions in need not just in christian areas

Elias Skaff is covering Tachjeer events from north to south not just in zahle.

and the list will go on once we win the elections... everything we're working on proves that we're working for a moujtama3 madaneh bi emtiyez away from ma7soubiyyet w 3asabiyet ta2ifiye w mazhabiye...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by General

..and concerning the presidency issue, he was right. why can't we talk about the ra2is majles nouweb and the prime minister but we can curse the president?

Berri was cursed for closing majles l'Nowweb. Sanyoura was cursed in the streets and still is. Aoun should take the position that no person in Lebanon is above criticism not say that the president shouldn't be attacked. What if the president, within his restricted authority, messes up things? We shouldn't criticize that because he is the president?

Originally Posted by General

now, going back to FPM on the ground as ministers...
Jebran Bassil lowered the costs of phones for all the lebanese not just for the christians on keserwen jbeil

Alain Tabourian (FPM's ally) did something good for the electricty where all the lebanese share it equally

Mario Aoun found many moustawsafet in all of the lebanese regions in need not just in christian areas

Elias Skaff is covering Tachjeer events from north to south not just in zahle.

The ministers from FPM are a lesson to everyone, I didn't deny that. I didn't even attack FPM in my post, I just said they are still not at the point at which a lot of people from Islamic sects can join them.

Originally Posted by General

and the list will go on once we win the elections... everything we're working on proves that we're working for a moujtama3 madaneh bi emtiyez away from ma7soubiyyet w 3asabiyet ta2ifiye w mazhabiye...

I don't doubt that, a very educated class of people is leading FPM to bring change about. But I don't trust how things would change after the smallest secterian problem.

Note 1: I have no problem with FPM being/becoming a sectarian party, the initial post was intended to say that a Muslim would find it hard to join them now...They are not there yet..

Note 2: Don't tell me that you know some Muslim in FPM...We are talking about a wider pattern not just individual cases..


Thank you

[El-Meghwar]

Originally Posted by deAtheganized

Note 1: I have no problem with FPM being/becoming a sectarian party, the initial post was intended to say that a Muslim would find it hard to join them now...They are not there yet..

FPM a sectarian party is not FPM. It will turn out to be another worthless party in Lebanon.
a muslim would find it hard to join FPM ?? man why don't you just talk about yourself and about sectarian people, please do not generalize.

Note 2: Don't tell me that you know some Muslim in FPM...We are talking about a wider pattern not just individual cases..

hehe, one of your funniest posts.
FPM officials in here, please can anyone provide us with the official number of non-christians in FPM ?? it seems that our dear brother athegan has lost his mind completely after his comeback to the religious roots ...
Muslims in FPM are thousands on the top of the list, our dear deputy Abbas Hachem.

[General]

Originally Posted by deAtheganized

Berri was cursed for closing majles l'Nowweb. Sanyoura was cursed in the streets and still is. Aoun should take the position that no person in Lebanon is above criticism not say that the president shouldn't be attacked. What if the president, within his restricted authority, messes up things? We shouldn't criticize that because he is the president?

you can ask something to simply leave but you can't tell him that he's a killer and monkey, there's a maximum that everyone should respect...
for how long have aoun been cursing sanioura? since 1992, did he ever say that he's an animal in public?

The ministers from FPM are a lesson to everyone, I didn't deny that. I didn't even attack FPM in my post, I just said they are still not at the point at which a lot of people from Islamic sects can join them.

I don't doubt that, a very educated class of people is leading FPM to bring change about. But I don't trust how things would change after the smallest secterian problem.

Note 1: I have no problem with FPM being/becoming a sectarian party, the initial post was intended to say that a Muslim would find it hard to join them now...They are not there yet..

Note 2: Don't tell me that you know some Muslim in FPM...We are talking about a wider pattern not just individual cases..


Thank you

People may not know, 25% of FPM is not christian, that would be good as a start for a secular party in the most existing sectarian country...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by General

you can ask something to simply leave but you can't tell him that he's a killer and monkey, there's a maximum that everyone should respect...
for how long have aoun been cursing sanioura? since 1992, did he ever say that he's an animal in public?

I would encourage him to do so. Sanyoura, Berri, Sleiman, La77oud, Rafi2 and sa3d l7ariri, they are no gods and it is everyone's right to criticize them the way they see fit...

Now if Berri has enough supporters to defend his image and so does every politician and then the President doesn't it is not our fault. It is the fault of whoever is picking a president everytime who represents no one.

Originally Posted by General

People may not know, 25% of FPM is not christian, that would be good as a start for a secular party in the most existing sectarian country...

I highly doubt that and I won't take it simply because you said it. Are you counting everyone who has an orange sticker on his car or something? I don't know what it is like to be 'part of FPM' but I highly doubt that a high number of Muslims would be real followers of FPM...

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

FPM a sectarian party is not FPM. It will turn out to be another worthless party in Lebanon.
a muslim would find it hard to join FPM ?? man why don't you just talk about yourself and about sectarian people, please do not generalize.

Shoo shoo shoo?? lol eywo l FPM...Now you are strong enough to call your everyone even your allies worthless parties? And call me sectarian now when my views simply represent what your allies believe? Do you think you could have survived in this country if you didn't seek alliance with those you are allied with now? If you think they are all worthless, retreat to your orange house and bark from there forever and lets see where that is going to take you....

Originally Posted by General

hehe, one of your funniest posts.
FPM officials in here, please can anyone provide us with the official number of non-christians in FPM ?? it seems that our dear brother athegan has lost his mind completely after his comeback to the religious roots ...
Muslims in FPM are thousands on the top of the list, our dear deputy Abbas Hachem.

General did give me the oh-so-authentic statistics that I will take now as the words of a holy book. Tayyar has Abbass Hachem and FPM has Basem l'Sabe3 doesn't say anything...

Athegan who has lost his mind, still offers to school you on every issue that comes to your mind whenever you feel like it and for really good prices...

Thank you both...I don't mean to attack FPM, you are making me do it since you are respecting only those with orange shirts on....being by that...no different than LFers...

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by deAtheganized

I highly doubt that and I won't take it simply because you said it. Are you counting everyone who has an orange sticker on his car or something? I don't know what it is like to be 'part of FPM' but I highly doubt that a high number of Muslims would be real followers of FPM...

Well you really don't have an idea about FPM popularity because your logic is based on sectarianism. Muslims cannot join FPM and here comes the difference, comparing a watch to a car.
During the Syrian occupation of Lebanon we used to have meetings and what afraid the Syrians and the sectarian lords was that FPM was able to recruit people from all sects to work for one cause which was liberate Lebanon.
We used to have meetings where people from ALL SECTS, even some were children of important pro-syrian leaders back then and had very hard situation and were only able to work in secret, it just that we never saw it the way you do.
FPM has about 60 thousand activist all over Lebanon even thought most of FPM supporters do not join the party like many in this forum.

I don't deny that FPM had adopted a sectarian-like speech since few years ago and it made some people take some distance from it especially secular ones and others wait changes like myself and think that FPM is still by far the best party to support to reach secularism in Lebanon especially with its big educated non sectarian base and secular platform.

Why do you think that 14feb care the most about FPM popularity?
Simply because FPMers do not join FPM for religious reasons and put a final line not to leave it whatever what.
Because FPM has the only base in Lebanon that is able to criticize its leadership without leaving it and has people who has different opinions but 1 target which is secularism and citicizenship which are the result of the change and reform.

That's why FPM can recruit people from different sects not because they are Muslims or Christians or Druze or whatever what, simply because they are Lebanese. The above may seem "Titles" to you simply because they were over abused in this country where good things turned to be so good to be true and the bad things became normal.