Does God Exist?

[Tawa]

Originally Posted by mr_j

you are a christian because both your parents are christians

Euh, no he's not He's not a sheep {please refer to the motivational posters I posted }

But you have a point in your post, and it's right

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by xcoder

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof - Christopher Hitchens

Originally Posted by Google

Q: Does God exists?
A: That's an easy question. Have you ever read the Summa Theologica ?

Read:
Therefore, lol.

Besides the fact that this whole description is running away from the answer and just attributing everything to the unknown "God", you yourself made a false assumption that THAT God is exactly the same God of religions. So even when someone is giving in that what you are saying is true for the sake of the argument, you will still not even come close of proving that God exists. At the very most, you would be proving that some sort of "force" exists or existed, potentially it can be a very vague force, which has no definite physical features. Most probably even that force had no purpose, and yes most probably even that force needed a creator according to your logic. heh, which means you are not even coming close of the point of proving anything.

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by Tawa

Euh, no he's not He's not a sheep {please refer to the motivational posters I posted }

But you have a point in your post, and it's right

Yeh, exactly, he's agnostic if I'm not mistaken. He maybe just wants to take a rant at both sides and have fun seeing us bicker while he sits on the sideline. hehe which I would be doing if I were in his place .

[mr_j]

Originally Posted by KeXasthur

Yeh, exactly, he's agnostic if I'm not mistaken. He maybe just wants to take a rant at both sides and have fun seeing us bicker while he sits on the sideline. hehe which I would be doing if I were in his place .

I consider myself an agnostic
but I have declared war on organised religion and their methods
I may not know if God exists or not, but I do know that it is highly unlikely to be the christian or the muslim God

what I do not agree with atheism is that aheists believe to the power of knowing(it means they truly truly believe) that there is no God, you simply cannot prove that
maybe there is and he doesn't care
or maybe all he did was create the big rock that blew up and left
God existing does not necessarly mean he prepared a heaven and a hell for humans, it might be as if he did not exist anyway

atheists are dimissing alot of possibilities that have a chance of being true

[The Orange Cat]

Originally Posted by Tawa

i'm not an atheist per say, i just don't believe in god, only in karma (what goes around comes around) but this quote makes total sense. i donno if religions in their core held ppl back but i'm sure clergymen, of all "heavenly" religions always have and always will.

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by mr_j

I consider myself an agnostic
but I have declared war on organised religion and their methods
I may not know if God exists or not, but I do know that it is highly unlikely to be the christian or the muslim God

what I do not agree with atheism is that aheism believe to the power of knowing(it means they truly truly believe) that there is no God, you simply cannot prove that
maybe there is and he doesn't care
or maybe all he did was create the big rock that blew up and left
God existing does not necessarly mean he prepared a heaven and a hell for humans, it might be as if he did not exist anyway

atheists are dimissing alot of possibilities that have a chance of being true

I agree with the idea you're conveying, I am also IN THAT Sense agnostic. However, when it comes to real ground, atheism is the most valid, simply because the only reason we give importance to any "God" is simply because of what religion has taught us. So any other form of "God" will be very very very useless, just like it meant nothing, and it we would only be calling it God according to the "metaphysical" power it holds. Let me give you an example. Let's say Science discovers that everything in this world started with a certain move, explosion, whatever, you would be calling it God, right ? Let's say after time they said that something preceded this explosion, you would now no more attributed God to the explosion but to the thing that proceeded it. It's inane, to be honest, because that means whatever happens would be called God. You would just be calling it God and giving it a name while in fact in value it might not be more significant than any nuclear bomb that happens nowadays or any phenomena that you see in your life. So yes, unlike the God of religion, you probably can't completely disprove that God in the form of force doesn't exist, but it is very very very useless. Besides, let's get back to the old question ; why would you want someone to disprove what cannot be proved in the first place ?

[KeXasthur]

I felt at first saying this would cause confusion instead of making it simpler, but now I think it's the other way around since my previous post was not very clear on why agnosticism is wrong and useless.

Ok, you're basically saying that whatever started it all is called God, right ?
Then GOD definitely exists because everything had started since we are here !!!

Can you see how illogical this is now ??? This would mean that being agnostic is also wrong. This is in very simple words why agnosticism makes no sense on real ground. Agnostics do not believe in God but pertain the "power" attributes that have been given to him which is useless because these powers and their idea were created by religious people so if you dismiss their God, you have to dismiss it completely, ie God in all its forms does not exist!

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by mr_j

I consider myself an agnostic
but I have declared war on organised religion and their methods
I may not know if God exists or not, but I do know that it is highly unlikely to be the christian or the muslim God

what I do not agree with atheism is that aheism believe to the power of knowing(it means they truly truly believe) that there is no God, you simply cannot prove that
maybe there is and he doesn't care
or maybe all he did was create the big rock that blew up and left
God existing does not necessarly mean he prepared a heaven and a hell for humans, it might be as if he did not exist anyway

atheists are dimissing alot of possibilities that have a chance of being true

The problem is that Atheism is being seen as the proving-that-god-does-not-exist religion which is totally not true.

Atheism cannot be compared to a religion, atheism is not about proving that religion is wrong, it was found to focus on what is real and how to improve that reality and get humanity to a better place based on science ambition innovation...

If religion ever proves that god exists, atheism will be the first to accept it and back it and it won't affect its existence which is not the case with religion if god was proved wrong.

Why does religion face atheism most of the time?
It's simple, religion is the biggest obstacle against improvement, instead of working on getting the world go forward and accept changes and development according to human needs and evolution it puts limits and walls of basic living rules.

Look back into history, the eclipse, rain, earthquakes... used to be signs of god-mood and miracles; these were used too frequently by religions, once SCIENCE explained how these phenomenal works, religion just ignored those facts. They used to burn and behead people who claimed that the earth wasn't plate and were accused of being agents of the devil :P

Religion = Fantasies (They remain fantasies until proved otherwise)

Atheism = Science (Accept all kind of theories and philosophies, accept debates and all kind of results)

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned

[mr_j]

agnosticism: 2 possibilities exist and equaly make sense
1) a big rock existed and it blew up making the universe
2)some supernatural being existed and then created the rock that blew up making the universe

this God does not need to be the christian God or muslim God, it doesn't have to be one God, maybe they have a community or colony in some other dimension
maybe maybe maybe

there is no need to say the world was started by a God and no one started him
we can just skip this to say, the world started alone
the rock was just there and it exploded

maybe the universe is a cycle, it explodes and then because of gravity, eventualy, in billions and billions of years, the particles find each others again and reunite, to explode again
that way we have ourselves a logical eternity that does not need an explanation
the particles simply existed

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by mr_j

agnosticism: 2 possibilities exist and equaly make sense
1) a big rock existed and it blew up making the universe
2)some supernatural being existed and then created the rock that blew up making the universe

this God does not need to be the christian God or muslim God, it doesn't have to be one God, maybe they have a community or colony in some other dimension
maybe maybe maybe

there is no need to say the world was started by a God and no one started him
we can just skip this to say, the world started alone
the rock was just there and it exploded

maybe the universe is a cycle, it explodes and then because of gravity, eventualy, in billions and billions of years, the particles find each others again and reunite, to explode again
that way we have ourselves a logical eternity that does not need an explanation
the particles simply existed

I agree with you in everything except the first sentence. Number one cannot be true with agnosticism because it means there is ACTUALLY no God. Se we are left with Number 2 which is what I discussed in my post above.

Originally Posted by xcoder

The problem is that Atheism is being seen as the proving-that-god-does-not-exist religion which is totally not true.

Atheism cannot be compared to a religion, atheism is not about proving that religion is wrong, it was found to focus on what is real and how to improve that reality and get humanity to a better place based on science ambition innovation...

If religion ever proves that god exists, atheism will be the first to accept it and back it and it won't affect its existence which is not the case with religion if god was proved wrong.

Can't agree more. Attempts to portray atheism as a religion is just plain wrong.