Does God Exist?

[mr_j]

I agree with you in everything except the first sentence. Number one cannot be true with agnosticism because it means there is ACTUALLY no God. Se we are left with Number 2 which is what I discussed in my post above

the point of beign agnostic is not knowing if a God exists or not
therefore both options 1 and 2 are opened for discussion with us and we would consider both to be likely true

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by mr_j

the point of beign agnostic is not knowing if a God exists or not
therefore both options 1 and 2 are opened for discussion with us and we would consider both to be likely true

ok, can you tell me why did you have to add the word supernatural being ??? This supernatural being can be an invisible tree , so what ? How did you exactly define that supernatural being had it not been for religion ?

[Google]

Originally Posted by KeXasthur

Besides the fact that this whole description is running away from the answer and just attributing everything to the unknown "God", you yourself made a false assumption that THAT God is exactly the same God of religions.

God is God. Is it the same God of religions? I don't care.
However, religions come to praise this unknown force/God you are talking about, therefore this is the same God.
You dude are taking things physically by projecting the issue and saying that A and B cannot be the same even if they have the ultimate same qualities.
But things aren't like this. You can have 2 clone materials (100% similar) but you cannot have an ultimate similarity when it comes to soul/spirit.
These are the rules:
1-GOD IS NOT A MATERIAL.
2-EVERYTHING DESCRIBED AS THE ULTIMATE GOOD, IS GOD.
3-YOU, MATERIAL. YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU CANNOT REACH. YOU WILL ALWAYS END UP WITH MATERIALISTIC THOUGHTS.

Originally Posted by KeXasthur

So even when someone is giving in that what you are saying is true for the sake of the argument, you will still not even come close of proving that God exists. At the very most, you would be proving that some sort of "force" exists or existed, potentially it can be a very vague force, which has no definite physical features. Most probably even that force had no purpose, and yes most probably even that force needed a creator according to your logic. heh, which means you are not even coming close of the point of proving anything.

By your most_probably, YOU are for sure the one who's not even coming close of the point of proving anything. The red color made it clear.
ALSO, while you are here to reject something. It would be better for you to defend your denying_of_God_existence because I'm in the position to ask you to give me your logic proofs for the problem and how can you tell us why there is no GOD.

You have proven nothing. You didn't give any logical argument to defend your point of view. You are keep attacking the other point of view while your house is from glass.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by Google

3-YOU, MATERIAL. YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU CANNOT REACH. YOU WILL ALWAYS END UP WITH MATERIALISTIC THOUGHTS.

This is the only point where i do not agree with you.
The existence of God is a very logical matter. Even though we are materialistic but by simple logical arguments we would easily conclude that God does indeed exist.

Hay men ne3am Allah 3layna....logic Our guiding light to all that is right

[Google]

Originally Posted by Kain

This is the only point where i do not agree with you.
The existence of God is a very logical matter. Even though we are materialistic but by simple logical arguments we would easily conclude that God does indeed exist.

Hay men ne3am Allah 3layna....logic Our guiding light to all that is right

3-YOU, MATERIAL. YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU CANNOT REACH. YOU WILL ALWAYS END UP WITH MATERIALISTIC THOUGHTS.

I said "reach GOD (means understand)" AND NOT "validate the existence of GOD", because as I said in my first reply, that the answer is logically easy to prove.

About the un_materialistic thoughts we have. Low level. 0.1%...urm.. just a number... By this amount we can do nothing with our thoughts.
Well, we obtain the 100% un_materialistic thoughts when we reach prophecy!

[Kain]

Originally Posted by Google

Low level. 0.1%...urm.. just a number... By this amount we can do nothing with our thoughts.
Well, we obtain the 100% un_materialistic thoughts when we reach prophecy!

Determining God's Existence and actually knowing God are 2 different things.

In order to determine God's existence simple logic would suffice. It is inescapable. Ejbare ma fi "maybe" bhal shaghle.

But in order to ACTUALLY know God. Then yes, you would need detachment from what is materialistic and reach levels close to prophecy.

edit: i just read your edit....then good we agree

[mr_j]

ok, can you tell me why did you have to add the word supernatural being ??? This supernatural being can be an invisible tree , so what ? How did you exactly define that supernatural being had it not been for religion ?

you can define it by philosophy, or by asking it to show itself which is also a funny coincidence. all religions they say their God is too pure for humans to see or understand
all religions say all other religions are false. philosophy will just discuss and it will never tell you for certainity you are wrong

religion is a multinationnal corporation ment on making money and gaining power
it's not about defining anything

they have their televisions, public affairs, propaganda, every time they sell you a miracle story or a saint story, they make millions
the crappiest piece of wood, if sold at an area where a saint is said to be, it will be sold for at least 5$
everytime the church tells you a church is emiting a holy light at midnight, thousands of people will go and spend hunderds of dollars in donation, not to mention buying souvenirs and food and enriching the area also many may choose to follow that religion
more followers= more money
that's how christianity does it, islam figured out a simpler way to spread instead of heavy propaganda, marry alot and have kids and teach them the way of God

and here is the story of the 2 most successful religions in the world
judaism has no miracles or several wives and so it failed limited to less than 50 million worshipers

christianity as karl marx said is the opium of the people
they teach you about modesty and that the poor will win the day and the rich will suffer, to keep you from rebelling, to keep your mouth shut about the abuse, while the priests in the middle ages ran off with all the gold, slave and respect(until the french revolution when they hung them on the ropes)

religion is subject to evolution, it gets modified and adapts, that's how polytheism died and worshiping fire and the sun died. it's not about surviving because it is true, but it is surviving because it adapts

if God exists or not, why should I worship him?
my father also created me, even if God existed if it weren't for my parents, I would still not exist, you don't see me holding a candle up to my dad or praying for him or following his illogical commands. and I can see my parents and I know they are real and I know that without them my life would not be possible

so why worship something I can't see and I am not sure he(and I say he because all religions had male prophets, God does not like women, so I doubt he is one) is there, and that if he is, repeating words in the air to him(which we call prayers) would actualy be useful to him


edit:

But in order to ACTUALLY know God. Then yes, you would need detachment from what is materialistic and reach levels close to prophecy.

there is an invisible apple on my desk, and if I wanted to convince you of its existence I would use the same arguments you are using now, but it will not make it any more real

an all powerful being that made the world and is capable of everything should not be so hard to find

[Kain]

Originally Posted by mr_j

there is an invisible apple on my desk, and if I wanted to convince you of its existence I would use the same arguments you are using now, but it will not make it any more real

an all powerful being that made the world and is capable of everything should not be so hard to find

Sorry to dissapoint you bas mesh 3am betshera3 ma3ak la t2elle "the same arguments you are using now"

I was simply commenting on what a fellow believer said
My comment here by no means constitutes as an argument to support God's existence

Ento 7aletkon may2oos menna ya3ne ma 7a wajji3 rase ma3kon i'll just follow up on the debate w comment men wa2et la wa2et

[KeXasthur]

Originally Posted by Google

God is God. Is it the same God of religions? I don't care.
However, religions come to praise this unknown force/God you are talking about, therefore this is the same God.
You dude are taking things physically by projecting the issue and saying that A and B cannot be the same even if they have the ultimate same qualities.
But things aren't like this. You can have 2 clone materials (100% similar) but you cannot have an ultimate similarity when it comes to soul/spirit.
These are the rules:
1-GOD IS NOT A MATERIAL.
2-EVERYTHING DESCRIBED AS THE ULTIMATE GOOD, IS GOD.
3-YOU, MATERIAL. YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU CANNOT REACH. YOU WILL ALWAYS END UP WITH MATERIALISTIC THOUGHTS.

Interesting to see such flawed logic:

God is God. Is it the same God of religions? I don't care.
However, religions come to praise this unknown force/God you are talking about, therefore this is the same God.

How does this ever imply that that same God will do everything according to the scripture, I don't understand. Please tell me you are kidding me on this. Religion adopt God, so that God will turn out to do everything they want ? hehehehehe

By your most_probably, YOU are for sure the one who's not even coming close of the point of proving anything. The red color made it clear.
ALSO, while you are here to reject something. It would be better for you to defend your denying_of_God_existence because I'm in the position to ask you to give me your logic proofs for the problem and how can you tell us why there is no GOD.

You have proven nothing. You didn't give any logical argument to defend your point of view. You are keep attacking the other point of view while your house is from glass.

Lol in your previous post, you made the most absurd assumption. I was simply telling you how that the God you talked about COULD be anything and that you were just proving nothing. Just because you defined that God the way you want doesn't mean it's true. Not everything happens the way you like, unfortunately.

As for logical arguments, I refuted you. You were trying to prove that God exists, and I refuted you so it is your job to continue proving that he exists for as I care I can tell you there exists an invisible tree right now in front of your house and ask you to prove it doesn't exist. What would your reaction be then ? Anyway if you want some arguments, read the thread, We've already discussed this before and I gave my take on this. I am seriously not going to post everything I write again.

[Google]

Originally Posted by mr_j

edit:
there is an invisible apple on my desk, and if I wanted to convince you of its existence I would use the same arguments you are using now, but it will not make it any more real

Go ahead. Use those arguments. Show me how can you use the 5 logical arguments I provided in my first post to prove your invisible apple. (Ana zalme 3a2le dak, brou7 ma3ak lal 2ekher w b3alle2 3a kell kelme! )

Originally Posted by mr_j

an all powerful being that made the world and is capable of everything should not be so hard to find

The word in red is based on what?
I think in other way. Let me re_write this:

The powerful being that made the word and capable of doing everything MUST be hard to find.

Can the search bar in the operating system of you computer find you? No. (Actually, this is not a proper example but it is fine to illustrate my thoughts ).