Torture

[Kain]

What do you guys think? Is torture ever justified? Are you with or against?

If yes then why? If no why not??

[mr_j]

it depends if it is effective or not
the study here said it is not effective in getting intelligence, if it is not effective then I am against it

if it is effective then I am for it, people who get tortured are being tortured for a good reason, like terrorism information, they could be gang members, they could be killing people

when you catch a criminal akid ma 7a ntachetcho w njeblou bouza la ye7ké

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mr_j

people who get tortured are being tortured for a good reason

You mean like when the SLA tortured civilians and resistance members in the Khiam prison or when the darak in Lebanon give you a beating just for looking at them the wrong way?

I'm generally against it, the risks of torture being abused is way higher than the reward
Let's say we come across a "ticking time bomb scenario", we "interrogate" the prisoner, we get the information and we save 100 people from dying a quick death in a bomb explosion.
Is it really better than not having thousands of people, most of whom are innocent, around the world being tortured?

[mr_j]

Originally Posted by Adam

You mean like when the SLA tortured civilians and resistance members in the Khiam prison or when the darak in Lebanon give you a beating just for looking at them the wrong way?

I'm generally against it, the risks of torture being abused is way higher than the reward
Let's say we come across a "ticking time bomb scenario", we "interrogate" the prisoner, we get the information and we save 100 people from dying a quick death in a bomb explosion.
Is it really better than not having thousands of people, most of whom are innocent, around the world being tortured?

no, I'm talking about people like the punks the army caught in naher al bared, they should have had the skin peeled off their bones for information, instead they were released

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mr_j

no, I'm talking about people like the punks the army caught in naher al bared, they should have had the skin peeled off their bones for information, instead they were released

Then what about HA members who get caught by Israel? Is it OK for the Israelis to peel the skin of their bones for information?

[mr_j]

see this is where it gets complicated.
prisoners of wars should be respected, in any regular war if for example lebanon catches american troops or vise versa, they are forced to respect them ... bas for israel HA is a terrorist organization and vice versa... they probably would not respect the prisoners, it shouldn't be the case

[The Cheese]

This topic is quite interesting and pretty controversial too.
Actually,yesterday was the International Day in Support of Torture Victims.Nice timing with the thread.
Anyway,on the torture issue,it could get very exaggerated,I found a lot of interesting stuff on that:
The evidence below shows that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales are guilty of violating "Federal Torture Act" Title 18 United States Code, Section 113C, the UN Torture Convention and the Geneva Convention by ordering and condoning the use of torture. Many prisoners have died as a result. Also, false information provided under torture was used to help justify the Iraq War with disastrous consequences.January 2002 - Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi was secretly handed to Egypt and tortured. Al-Libi told his interrogators that Iraq was training Al Qaeda how to use explosives and chemical weapons. Bush used this "intelligence" as part of his justification to invade Iraq. In 2004 Al-Libi said he had fabricated these claims to escape the pain of torture.
Source
John Yoo, author of the infamous legal memo justifying Presidential powers to torture US captives around the world says president Bush can legally torture children:
Cassel: If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty
Cassel: Also no law by Congress -- that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo...
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.
Source
Also source
More on torture and its efficiency:
Here and here
This is what waterboarding's like:
]

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mr_j

see this is where it gets complicated.
prisoners of wars should be respected, in any regular war if for example lebanon catches american troops or vise versa, they are forced to respect them ... bas for israel HA is a terrorist organization and vice versa... they probably would not respect the prisoners, it shouldn't be the case

The word terrorist is just a lame excuse for the Americans and the Israelis to do whatever they want, if we think like them we become like them.
I believe the word you are looking for is insurgents. HA are for Israel what Fatah Al-Islam are for Lebanon, insurgents. And yes, a war with insurgents is considered a war. Therefore the same rules apply.

If you start making exception then everyone will make exceptions. So I refer you to my first post:

Let's say we come across a "ticking time bomb scenario", we "interrogate" the prisoner, we get the information and we save 100 people from dying a quick death in a bomb explosion.
Is it really better than not having thousands of people, most of whom are innocent, around the world being tortured?

Which would you rather have, save the day with torture or spare thousands of people (most of them innocent) unthinkable agony?

[Kain]

Could mods please add an "i don't know" option to the poll?? thank you

[halhoula]

I actually voted No, tortured cannot be justified in an ideal world. Torture is INHUMANE law chou ma ken el sabab. But we are human and in certain cases the crime committed by the criminal makes torture sth he deserves because we are emontionally appalled by his actions. i'll give an example if a person rapes people and then kills them in a cruel way when he is caught you say he deserves torture.
Where as in the case of investigation and in the cases where torture is used to get information i think that this is rarely justifiable even thought it is frequently used.