Bashir Gemayel: Patriotic or Traitor ?!

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by Aurora

Was he the only one?
If he killed 1000,ghayro killed 5000 :s

k now this thing drives me crazier , if he killed and others killed , that makes him diff.??

lets say a man killed 2 persons , another man killed 2000 ,
does it make the man who killed 2 better??? he killed these 2 and all their guilt was to disagree with him , does he deserve to be loved and considered patriotic and loves as a god , no matter wat good he did ??!! LOGIC

[flamenguita]

Originally Posted by systamatics

k now this thing drives me crazier , if he killed and others killed , that makes him diff.??

lets say a man killed 2 persons , another man killed 2000 ,
does it make the man who killed 2 better??? he killed these 2 and all their guilt was to disagree with him , does he deserve to be loved and considered patriotic and loves as a god , no matter wat good he did ??!! LOGIC

Systa, systa, Plz try tp understand the history we are talking about regarding the legacy of Sheikh Bachir. We never said that he didn't kill but killing innocent people, unharmed or who had nothing to do with the devastating situation in Lebanon, it can be turned wrong. Sheikh Bachir launched a war on the SSNP and all the parties who supported Syrian presence in Lebanon. He knew it will cause lives but he never turned his arms on innocent people, he saw in the palestinian presence here a danger and look what we are facing now becoz of them.

he saw in the syrian presence a danger and we paid a lot becoz of their sh**s and we are still paying tillnow.

He later saw in the israeili presence a threat and he tried to pull us out from their dirt but the SSNP DIDN'T LET HIM ACCOMPLISH THE 10452 km2 dream.

He is the patriotic and they are the traitors.

[SysTaMatIcS]

is sending the troops to zgherta in order he can rule all the christians is patriotic?? to me everyone who participated in the civil war is a criminal , and theyr all the same

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by AhmadElHusseini

While Bashir and the other idiots with power were busy fighting each other... The Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps came to Lebanon and fought Israel directly for 3 years until they set up the poor Shia to fend for themsleves... what did Bashir do? You know it is sad when an outside force is fighting the occupation, while the idiots in charge were sucking up to the aggressor... If Bashir was alive today... I would want to see him as Geagea's cell mate... If that killer was still in jail...

Idiots with power fighting each other.
does it include Moussa El Sader?...

Iranians fighting israel?
meanwhile Khomeini is getting arms, ammunition, spare parts and consultancy from Israel?...(farfour w zanbou maghfour).
tell me about Shia brothers gathering each others, in Bahrain and Qatar and all over the gulf. (Shiaaaaaaaaaaa is what brought them together not fighting israel.).

Shia to fend themselves?....
man until liberation Shia were part of South Lebanon Army.
Suddenly....all the Shia have become winged angels dying for the cause?.

what did bashir do?...
at least he opened the way for you to go to south lebanon.
at least you are able now to stand on israel's borders.
why not before 1982?
because your brothers palestinians were stepping on your heads and you were enjoying it.
it smells palestine so no problem. isn't it?.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by AhmadElHusseini

So now the Palestinians "invaded" Lebanon... we are obviously not arguing with a sane person... Palestinians fleeing from their land, now = invasion.... ok

husseini........i'm with you all the way.
the palestinians were kicked out of jordan because the jordanians were so bad.
they were kicked out again from lebanon because the lebanese were so bad.
no luck man.....
no one wants to do what they did.
they sold their country and now they can not buy one.
please advise.

Originally Posted by AhmadElHusseini

You cannot compare Syria and Palestinians with Israel... through it all... Syrians are Arabs... and the Arab-Israeli Conflict comes first... it is weightier then fights with Syria...

the question is not if syrians are arabs.........sure they are.
it is not if the arab - israeli conflict comes first.......sure it does.
but excuse me..
the way to palestine does not cross from jounieh.
and lebanon is not the card for syria to bargain on.

and again u r right.
no....you can not compare those who sold their lands with those who bought it.
and this applies to both.....palestine and the Golan heights.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by AhmadElHusseini

Traitor... because he simply collaborated w/ Israelis... and it is against Lebanese law... I don't see the great figure in him... and I'm surprised that many forget that he committed treason...

traitor...
treason....
are relative issues.
where was israel in 1975?
was bashir collaborating with israel in 1975?
so you are dealing here with causes and consequences.
look at it this way.
u had no reason to stand by the palestinian against your compatriot lebanese in 1975.
but........u did.
so you are a traitor by choice.

when bashir was cornered he seeked arms and training from israel.
so he is a traitor???...by lack of choices.
our idol khomeini was cornered during the IRAQ- IRAN war,
so he seeked arms, ammunition, spare parts and advice from israel.
so he is a hero????...by lack of choices?

nobody liked israel to be the assistant.
but whoever was left without options would have made the same choice.
a gun...a dagger....and a bottle of poison.
select what suites you and advise me.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by Aurora

Was he the only one?
If he killed 1000,ghayro killed 5000 :s

Aurora,
there are so many regrets....
there are so many apologies.....
to innocent civilians who fell victims to the dirty war....
because there is no clean or innocent war.

but sure no regrets.. nor apologies to

invadors, occupiers and collaborators

who in 1975 had no reason at all to stand against their lebanese brothers

for the sake of the sold territories.

PALESTINE and the GOLAN HEIGHTS.

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by AhmadElHusseini

You are just rambling my friend... you are completely oblivious to the FACT... that it was hezbollah, not Bachir the traitor... who freed your land... you'd be a fool to think that, Iran started the whole Lebanese-Israeli conflict... Iran came to Lebanon's aid, after your buddys, the Israelis invaded Lebanon... Hezbollah was formed after Lebanon was invaded... where was the Traitor then? wait... that's right... he was helping the Israelis... Weak argument on ur part... go read more...

PS... who's Abbas?

Iran came to lebanon......
man i feel so proud just like when the palestinians came to lebanon.


but you know as i know that when iranians come to lebanon
an equal number of lebanese (HA) go to iran.
not to liberate iran from our Israeli BUDDYS
but to kick demonstrators asses and shut hungry mouths.
who are fed up with HA and Revolutionary Guard
you know i am right?.
you want me to tell you how much they are paid?

so it is beyond Israel and fighting Israel.....isn't it?.
when are you by the way expecting your Mehdi?and until thenis there any chance at all for you to drop your arms?
the answer is no....i know.

where is lebanon in all this?
what is lebanon in all this?
nothing...as we both know.

so stop this traitor crap
because you don't belong to lebanon
because you don't recognize lebanon
you are using lebanon as a slogan
for a far bigger cause.

so....who is the traitor?.

[getryne]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

traitor...
treason....
are relative issues.
where was israel in 1975?
was bashir collaborating with israel in 1975?
so you are dealing here with causes and consequences.
look at it this way.
u had no reason to stand by the palestinian against your compatriot lebanese in 1975.
but........u did.
so you are a traitor by choice.

when bashir was cornered he seeked arms and training from israel.
so he is a traitor???...by lack of choices.
our idol khomeini was cornered during the IRAQ- IRAN war,
so he seeked arms, ammunition, spare parts and advice from israel.
so he is a hero????...by lack of choices?

nobody liked israel to be the assistant.
but whoever was left without options would have made the same choice.
a gun...a dagger....and a bottle of poison.
select what suites you and advise me.

إيهود يعاري - صحافي إسرائيلي

بالتأكيد لا، كانت القاعدة، وأود التشديد على ذلك أن الاتصالات ليس على بالضرورة على أعلى المستويات بين الموارنة ومبعوثيهم على المستويات المنخفضة مع دوائر الموساد وأحياناً وزارة الدفاع ووزارة الخارجية، هذه الاتصالات كانت دائمة، كانت ظاهرة دائمة مستمرة، وعندما تُفتح سجلات وزارة الخارجية لأنني لا أعتقد أن سجلات الموساد ستفتح، سيرى العالم بأسره حقيقة هذه الاتصالات، في هذه الفترة كانت الاتصالات تتم في باريس وأول الاتصالات المتعلقة بالحرب الأهلية اللبنانية بدأت مباشرةً بعد اندلاع الحرب، في
أبريل/ نيسان عام 75 تدريجياً ازدادت كثافة الاتصالات وارتفع مستوى ممثلي الطرفين، إلى أن حصل في نهاية المطاف لقاء على زورق صواريخ إسرائيلي بين اسحق رابين وكميل شمعون والشيخ بيير الجميل




ماذا فعل بشير في المراحل الأولى لاتصالاته رفيعة المستوى مع الإسرائيليين؟ لقد أبدى شغفاً بتاريخ إسرائيل، كان يقول للناس كم تعلَّم من الحركة اليهودية السرية خلال فترة الانتداب البريطاني، وكيف يريد أن يقلد ذلك النموذج.. نموذج (الهاجانا) ووحدة (البالما) التي نشأ منها الجيش الإسرائيلي قبل قيام دولة إسرائيل. بشير كان صريحاً، وكان كذلك رجلاً متحمساً، وكان أيضاً يتسم بالرجولة، الإسرائيليون الذين شاؤوا أن يعجبوا به أعجبوا به، لم يكن كثيرون على علم بالاتصالات التي كانت جارية معه، ولكن عدداً كبيراً ممن كانوا يعرفون بذلك الأمر وصلوا إلى درجة اعتقدوه فيها واحداً منا

BACHIR WAS REALLY A HERO......

concerning knomeini...
wait a minute bro.... thats too much fake facts, so ur talking abt watergate?! right? well everybody explains facts as he likes, same 4 u.. did u hear abt the british made night-vision used by hizbullah at the last war, maybe u dont like 2 hear abt it,how did hizbullah get them, was that an assistance from great britain 2 defend hizbullah... wat abt the brand new m18s used by hizbullah fighters.. was that an american assist 2 hezbullah????? how can u explain that? maybe u should add a new word 2 ur dictionary called WEAPONS BLACK MARKET..... concerning iran-iraq war, just remember to say that the islamic revolution have been in iran 2 yrs before the war, and iran was an american state before! so the iranian weapons were all american, bcz iran was the best friend of america before khomeini....... and when khomeini came, americans tried their best to get rid of him, and wats better than their toy, saddam hussien to do this job,so americans used saddam hussien to attack iran.... iranians began this war with an army holding american made weapons which were found in iran before the revolution of khomeini, so they used the BLACK MARKET to get the american ammunition and spare parts 4 their american made weapons, the whole world remembers this war as an american(iraqi) vs. russian(irani) , except mr. ibn battouta who still beleives that US nd israel were defending iran.........

[getryne]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

Iran came to lebanon......
man i feel so proud just like when the palestinians came to lebanon.


but you know as i know that when iranians come to lebanon
an equal number of lebanese (HA) go to iran.
not to liberate iran from our Israeli BUDDYS
but to kick demonstrators asses and shut hungry mouths.
who are fed up with HA and Revolutionary Guard
you know i am right?.
you want me to tell you how much they are paid?

so it is beyond Israel and fighting Israel.....isn't it?.
when are you by the way expecting your Mehdi?and until thenis there any chance at all for you to drop your arms?
the answer is no....i know.

where is lebanon in all this?
what is lebanon in all this?
nothing...as we both know.

so stop this traitor crap
because you don't belong to lebanon
because you don't recognize lebanon
you are using lebanon as a slogan
for a far bigger cause.

so....who is the traitor?.

I WOULD ASK MR. ADMINISTRATOR TO DELETE IBN BATTOUTA'S LAST THREAD, BCZ IT CONTAINS WORDS WHICH ATTACK RELIGIOUS THOUGHTS 4 SOME PEOPLE. IN ALL CASES AM GONNA TELL U IBN BATTOUTA. AL MAHDI AL MONTAZAR IS A BELIEVE 4 ALL MUSLIMS INCLUDING SUNNA ND SHI3A, SO UR ATTACKING A RELIGIOUS SYMBOL.... AL MAHDI AL MONTAZAR IS THE "MOKHALLIS" WHICH MUSLIMS BELEIVE IN. "AL MASI7" IS THE "MUKHALLIS" WHICH CHRISTIANS BELEIVE IN. WAT IF BOTH OF THEM WAS ONE PERSON..... MUSLIMS SAY HE'S GONNA BE SHORT, CHRISTIANS SAY HE'S GONNA BE TALL. MUSLIMS SAY HE LIKES PIZZA, CHRISTIANS SAY HE LIKES PASTA, AT LAST HE WILL BE APPEAR..... ONLY ONE MOKHALLIS NOT 2, SO I CAN C THAT UR ATTCKING A BELEIVE 4 ALL LEBANESE, CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS..... THE WEAPON WHICH UR TALKING ABT WON'T GONNA BE DROPPED 4 ONE SIMPLE REASON.... ISRAEL, AS LONG AS ISRAEL IS FOUND, THE RESISTANCE ARMS IS FOUND, SO IF U REALLY WANNA GET RID OF THIS RESISTANCE, GO ND ELIMINTE ISRAEL, ND TRUST ME NO MORE WEAPON WILL BE NEEDED..... IT'S NOT THE MATTER IF IRAN IS HELPING THE LEBANESE RESISTANCE OR NOT IRAN, IT'S THE MATTER THAT THERE'S AN EXTERNAL AID FOR OUR RESISTANCE..... MANY COUNTRIES HELPED THE LEBANESE AND PALESTIANIAN RESISTANCE BEFORE IRAN.... SYRIA, LIBYA, ALGERIA, IRAQ.... AT THE PRESENT TIME IT'S IRAN... DON'T BE THAT UPSET BCZ OF THE RESISTANCE WEAPON, JUST SIMPLY GET USED TO IT, TRUST ME U WOULD FEEL BETTER, SHOU YI3NI!!!!!! MITLAK MTL HAL ISRA2ILI, MTL MA HOUWWI T3AWWAD 3A HAL SLE7, INTA FIK TIT3AWWAD............ TA77IYETNA