Secular parties in lebanon.....and their role in the civil war

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

proudly i am ssnp member.
proudly i fought Kataeb party being a secterian party.

what do you think of Socialist Progressist party?
secterian.
what do you think of Amal party?
secterian.
what do you think of Mourabitoun movement?
secterian.
what do you think of HA ?
secterian.

How could you pretend while fighting shoulder to shoulder with at least 4 secterian parties........fighting the Kataeb secterian party?.

So you better give better reasons for fighting Kataeb...
or should i request the true reasons?

a discussion i had with an ssnp member.
share your opinions or similar occurences.
thanks.

[SysTaMatIcS]

i dont get anythin from this ,y did he fite kataeb? wats the reason here , NOT being secterian??

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by systamatics

i dont get anythin from this ,y did he fite kataeb? wats the reason here , NOT being secterian??

what i meant is,
if the main agenda of the ssnp is to fight secterian parties,
to do so, he should not go into alliance with other secterian parties.
which he did.

by the way,
the same applies to the communist party as well.

so were these parties serving the purpose of their existance,
or were they disoriented?.

i hope i made myself clear.

[SysTaMatIcS]

making alliances with secular parties is a must , even if it contradicts with their idology , they cant live alone , especially when they c 2 projects in lebanon , one seeks destruction , nd one seeks peace , they must choose the project they c as a better one . . .

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by systamatics

making alliances with secular parties is a must , even if it contradicts with their idology , they cant live alone , especially when they c 2 projects in lebanon , one seeks destruction , nd one seeks peace , they must choose the project they c as a better one . . .

you're replying to another subject the guy is not telling you this.
He's telling you that SSNP said that they're fighting kataeb because they're sectarian not because they're bad while SSNP allies are sectarian as well see?

[getryne]

so how could i miss some conservation about SSNP....
well am an SSNP member proudly.... nd do u wanna know y i fought kata2ib party not since 1975, bt since 1930 nd 1940 till 2007?
so let's c our lebanese movements... kata2ib, 2ouwwet, fpm, marada, HA, amal, Mista2bal, ishtiraki.... in other words shi3a, sunna, Mwarne', druz... so these r secular movements not A7ZAB, the only 2 parties in lebanon r SSNP, nd Communists.
the only ones who hold a social-national-economical ideology 4 all lebanese nd even Non-lebanese people....
let's go back 2 our pt. ,can i know wats the relation between the french occupation of lebanon, in 1930-40 , nd the kata2ib party... of course i know this realtion: if kata2ib was defending siyede' , nd 7irreye' , nd iste2lel at that time, then it should have been a secret party not a well-known, well-armed party.. i should have seen pierre jmayyil moving from one jail 2 another, not a lebanese parliament member.... (same thing 4 riyad lsol7, bchara lkhouri, whal 2irta killa) while SSNP at that time was a secret party, nd his leader ANTOUN S3ADE' , in jail nd exile....
next pt, wat was kata2ib's relation with israel since 1948 (till these days probably), wat was the fact of that " CHRISTIAN MARONITE REBEL" lead by kata2ib, nd helped by israel, to have the maronite independent state which will be the friendly state for israel.....
am not gonna talk abt the 1975 period, because the israeli-kata2ib alliance was 3a dahr l sati7, so let's c which of the other movements dealt with israel: HA, AMAL, MORABITOUN, COMMUNISTS??? as an SSNP, i have a conflict with all other lebanese movements nd parties, a conflict of mabadi2, ideology, sucularism.... bt when israel is inside the game, it's no more a conflict, the word is for rifles only.... so this msg isn't only 4 kata2ib, bt 4 any other movement or party who think abt dealing or looking towards israel.... bachir jmayyil is an exmaple, SSNP say it face 2 face : WE killed bachir, w7ayyo 7abib lchartouni.... nd anyone who think abt dealing with our only enemy israel will follow bachir.... THE SIMPLEST FORMULA IN THE WHOLE WORLD

[xcoder]

Originally Posted by getryne

so how could i miss some conservation about SSNP....
well am an SSNP member proudly.... nd do u wanna know y i fought kata2ib party not since 1975, bt since 1930 nd 1940 till 2007?
so let's c our lebanese movements... kata2ib, 2ouwwet, fpm, marada, HA, amal, Mista2bal, ishtiraki.... in other words shi3a, sunna, Mwarne', druz... so these r secular movements not A7ZAB, the only 2 parties in lebanon r SSNP, nd Communists.
the only ones who hold a social-national-economical ideology 4 all lebanese nd even Non-lebanese people....
let's go back 2 our pt. ,can i know wats the relation between the french occupation of lebanon, in 1930-40 , nd the kata2ib party... of course i know this realtion: if kata2ib was defending siyede' , nd 7irreye' , nd iste2lel at that time, then it should have been a secret party not a well-known, well-armed party.. i should have seen pierre jmayyil moving from one jail 2 another, not a lebanese parliament member.... (same thing 4 riyad lsol7, bchara lkhouri, whal 2irta killa) while SSNP at that time was a secret party, nd his leader ANTOUN S3ADE' , in jail nd exile....
next pt, wat was kata2ib's relation with israel since 1948 (till these days probably), wat was the fact of that " CHRISTIAN MARONITE REBEL" lead by kata2ib, nd helped by israel, to have the maronite independent state which will be the friendly state for israel.....
am not gonna talk abt the 1975 period, because the israeli-kata2ib alliance was 3a dahr l sati7, so let's c which of the other movements dealt with israel: HA, AMAL, MORABITOUN, COMMUNISTS??? as an SSNP, i have a conflict with all other lebanese movements nd parties, a conflict of mabadi2, ideology, sucularism.... bt when israel is inside the game, it's no more a conflict, the word is for rifles only.... so this msg isn't only 4 kata2ib, bt 4 any other movement or party who think abt dealing or looking towards israel.... bachir jmayyil is an exmaple, SSNP say it face 2 face : WE killed bachir, w7ayyo 7abib lchartouni.... nd anyone who think abt dealing with our only enemy israel will follow bachir.... THE SIMPLEST FORMULA IN THE WHOLE WORLD

You just wrote a whole story my friend out subject.
He's telling you that a friend of him said that he's fighting kataeb because they're sectarian while SSNP allies are sectarian as well.
He's not inventing anything this is a fact, no need to be against anything we read hear or see, no one said SSNP is not secular no one said SSNP is bad no one said who are the SSNP, you replied to all the points non related to the subject "ibn_battouta" raised.

If you think that Bachir Gemayel the president of the Lebanese republic and Riad el Soleh the prime minister should be killed because they're traitors.
Then who are you to judge Lebanese representatives if you don't believe in Lebanon existence and see us with syria , palestine and blablabla as 1 nation.
What do you call supporting Syrians and Palestinians against Lebanese?
What should i call you? patriot?
Wake up my friend and face it, if bachir was wrong when dealt with israel it's because you were wrong by supporting syrians and palestinians to occupy our land and kill our people and relay your destiny with them while they don't give a damn about you or any other Lebanese.
Are you satisfied of the syrian occupation for the last 15 years?
Are you satisfied of what hte palestinians did in Lebanon and still doing in their camps?
I am not defending kataeb nor any other party sectarian party or secular.
You're seeing the fly in other's eye but you're not seeing the camel in your eye.
Israel, Syria, Palestine are all my enemies for a simple and clear reason, upon the time they occupied my land killed my people not because Israel is the only enemy and our blood is 7alel to all "sister and brother" countries.

Regards,

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by getryne

so how could i miss some conservation about SSNP....
well am an SSNP member proudly.... nd do u wanna know y i fought kata2ib party not since 1975, bt since 1930 nd 1940 till 2007?
so let's c our lebanese movements... kata2ib, 2ouwwet, fpm, marada, HA, amal, Mista2bal, ishtiraki.... in other words shi3a, sunna, Mwarne', druz... so these r secular movements not A7ZAB, the only 2 parties in lebanon r SSNP, nd Communists.
the only ones who hold a social-national-economical ideology 4 all lebanese nd even Non-lebanese people....
let's go back 2 our pt. ,can i know wats the relation between the french occupation of lebanon, in 1930-40 , nd the kata2ib party... of course i know this realtion: if kata2ib was defending siyede' , nd 7irreye' , nd iste2lel at that time, then it should have been a secret party not a well-known, well-armed party.. i should have seen pierre jmayyil moving from one jail 2 another, not a lebanese parliament member.... (same thing 4 riyad lsol7, bchara lkhouri, whal 2irta killa) while SSNP at that time was a secret party, nd his leader ANTOUN S3ADE' , in jail nd exile....
next pt, wat was kata2ib's relation with israel since 1948 (till these days probably), wat was the fact of that " CHRISTIAN MARONITE REBEL" lead by kata2ib, nd helped by israel, to have the maronite independent state which will be the friendly state for israel.....
am not gonna talk abt the 1975 period, because the israeli-kata2ib alliance was 3a dahr l sati7, so let's c which of the other movements dealt with israel: HA, AMAL, MORABITOUN, COMMUNISTS??? as an SSNP, i have a conflict with all other lebanese movements nd parties, a conflict of mabadi2, ideology, sucularism.... bt when israel is inside the game, it's no more a conflict, the word is for rifles only.... so this msg isn't only 4 kata2ib, bt 4 any other movement or party who think abt dealing or looking towards israel.... bachir jmayyil is an exmaple, SSNP say it face 2 face : WE killed bachir, w7ayyo 7abib lchartouni.... nd anyone who think abt dealing with our only enemy israel will follow bachir.... THE SIMPLEST FORMULA IN THE WHOLE WORLD

other secular parties....
there are other secular parties nowadays.
one of them is the fpm.

independance....
ssnp was fighting for lebanon's independance as part of greater syria not as an independant country.
meanwhile pierre gemayel fought for lebanon as an independant country.
my doubt....this is the part ssnp doesn't like.

relations with israel....
you are going far back in history.
and bringing the kataeb - israel relationship to 1948.
based on what facts?.
when there were no israel?.

when you fought you war in 1975,
did you feel that president franjieh was pro - israel for example?.

and how come ssnp were allied to the syrian forces in 1976 fighting the national movement parties and helping kataeb.
was it ssnp choice or ssnp loyalty to syrian regime?.
was it based on the national movement alliance with israel?.

when you fought you war against Tawheed islamic movement in tripoli,
was it ssnp choice or ssnp loyalty to syrian regime?.
was it based on the Tawheed islamic movement alliance with israel?.

i say this for reasons.
secular parties hold ideologies, which even enemies tend to respect.
followers don't.

you try all the way to disguise the truth.
the truth is that Antoun Saade ideology was not based on ssnp being followers to syrian regimes.
in fact his ideology threatens the syrian regime, as it calls for dissolving it in a bigger entity.
it is in complete contradiction with a dictatorship called Assad family regime.

have no comment on the ideology....as i read about...and this is not what we are discussing here.

have hell of comments on practicing the ideology.....
ssnp sold the ideology except for the name...syrian.

this is what we are talking about.

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

other secular parties....
there are other secular parties nowadays.
one of them is the fpm.

independance....
ssnp was fighting for lebanon's independance as part of greater syria not as an independant country.
meanwhile pierre gemayel fought for lebanon as an independant country.
my doubt....this is the part ssnp doesn't like.

relations with israel....
you are going far back in history.
and bringing the kataeb - israel relationship to 1948.
based on what facts?.
when there were no israel?.

when you fought you war in 1975,
did you feel that president franjieh was pro - israel for example?.

and how come ssnp were allied to the syrian forces in 1976 fighting the national movement parties and helping kataeb.
was it ssnp choice or ssnp loyalty to syrian regime?.
was it based on the national movement alliance with israel?.

when you fought you war against Tawheed islamic movement in tripoli,
was it ssnp choice or ssnp loyalty to syrian regime?.
was it based on the Tawheed islamic movement alliance with israel?.

i say this for reasons.
secular parties hold ideologies, which even enemies tend to respect.
followers don't.

you try all the way to disguise the truth.
the truth is that Antoun Saade ideology was not based on ssnp being followers to syrian regimes.
in fact his ideology threatens the syrian regime, as it calls for dissolving it in a bigger entity.
it is in complete contradiction with a dictatorship called Assad family regime.

have no comment on the ideology....as i read about...and this is not what we are discussing here.

have hell of comments on practicing the ideology.....
ssnp sold the ideology except for the name...syrian.

this is what we are talking about.

the makers of 1957 peace with israel were from kataeb !

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by systamatics

the makers of 1957 peace with israel were from kataeb !

please elaborate.
when?.......where?......were they acting alone without lebanese parliament consent as HA did in 2006?.
thanks.