What's religion to u?

[MARX ®]

Religion is something that should be kept between the person and himself,and always remember that religion is the opium of the masses, coz religion and only religion can make people fight with each other........

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

Yes it can be a crutch for weak people, and it's not a shame to use a crutch if you have broken legs ...
A reason why a strong man (who don't need a crutch) describe religion as a crutch for those who are weak (minded) is because religion answers questions that people can't answer by themselves as "what's the meaning of life?" and "where we go after we die?", etc ... causing varying degree of anxiety in them.

Fine till now...Let people live in illusions,as I see it, if that makes them happy..But again,religion doesn't stop there....Along with the crutch, some religions offer guns, blinding masks, ignorance, backwardness (If u can't see how ALL religions give one or more of the preceding words, ask me to explain further)

Originally Posted by abousoun

I think that people who rely too much on their faith become blind to reality, the same way a scientist relies too much on his abstract theories also becomes blind to faith ...
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

First, sorry this might sound kinda personal but I am really sad a doctor is comparing religion to science in this manner... The discourse we follow to reach scientific theories and results is one that is subject to critique and peer review and cross experiments and blind tests...Religion has a protective shield immune to criticism...They all at some point had slain disbeliever ors even worse just doubters who wanted answers and they continue to do so today... The point is science is built on facts, religion is built on fables, superstition, and with the use of intimidation( satan, hell....believe or else) spreads to the masses....

Originally Posted by abousoun

It's like an attempt to ignore an entire belief system by minimizing something which is so complex into a simpler category ...
eno chou jeib the superstition which is about hunches, chances, knocking on woods, etc ... to something which pivots on faith, rules, trust, reliance on God ...

Give me an example of a core religious belief that totally contradicts with your religion and you don't consider superstition ( it should contradict and please be honest)

Originally Posted by abousoun

Show me one example of a non believing society that has reached out to help others or became more civilized than a believing one ...
Atheistic society claim its success in communism, but communism wasn't or isn't about religion only

First of all, secular societies can be considered non-religious societies...I can give examples till tomorrow about what Canada and Sweden and Denmark and and....have done but I will only give one example. Check out how muslims are treated in European nations were Christianity is informally endorsed by the governments and check how they are treated in secular countries. Danish schools now only have halal meat, they are feeding christians halal meat and Denmark is one of the highest atheistic societies.....

I am against Marxian Communism more than you are, communist leaders and countries (Mao, Stalin...) didn't however do their atrocities in name of Atheism. Atheism is an empty word with no meaning. You can be an atheist and a communist, nihilist, existentialist, psychopath, VHEMT member or anything else. Atheism only means you don't believe a supreme being exists or believe a supreme being doesn't exist. I can't see why that on its own would cause atrocities.

Religious countries however, starting from ancient egypt,aztec mexico, catholic europe and ending up with the oppresive islamic states in most arabic countries do what they do and did what they did because of religion....

Originally Posted by abousoun

leave the door of schizophreniacs closed

Let me explain a bit, you are probably a muslim but remember you are not defending islam, you are defending Religion... I will explain what I meant by a form of mild schizophrenia by being religion specific a bit :

Catholics: The same person who functions greatly all week thinks some wine is the blood of christ on sunday, follows a church that says condoms are the biggest evil and prohibits their use in africa causing the spread of AIDS and death of millions...the same church that blamed jews for the plague and prosecuted Galileo for saying the world is not flat....oh and they apologized only in the 1990's for that...maybe until they made sure it is flat

Mormons: You can't be a person with a responsibilities and wisdom all week while at the same time believe that the jews traveled to america in the canoe from palestine with jesus and that certian magic underwear make ur day good and dandy...

I can go on for every religion u can imagine, just ask for it and I will be happy to...when the same minds seems to function greatly on most daily stuff and then, when faith is the thing in question, a shield is placed and the most absurd things are believed and unquestioned...

Originally Posted by abousoun

Thank You ...

More than welcome and thank you, I had more to say but i didnt want the post to be too long...

[Sony]

i simply don't care,
i don't care if god send me to hell or no,
i believe that hell and heaven is on earth we r not going anywhere
heaven in a good health,family,friends,etc...
hell in wars,disasters,pain,etc...
the more funny is the old ppl, they do billions of sins and before they dies they start praying,etc...
i want to live my life as an animal, animals can't pray,they don't think abt tomorrow, and they survive..i don't need more then this

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

Fine till now...Let people live in illusions,as I see it, if that makes them happy..But again,religion doesn't stop there....Along with the crutch, some religions offer guns, blinding masks, ignorance, backwardness (If u can't see how ALL religions give one or more of the preceding words, ask me to explain further)..

You are mixing "التديّن" with "التطرّف" ... In every religion there are subcategories which allow and deny certain actions in the name of religion ...

في التوراة نجد "من قتل نفساً بدون حق فكأنما قتل الناس جميعاً
في الانجيل "طوبى لصانعي السلام فإنهم أبناء الله يدعون
في القرآن "ولا تقتلوا النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق

When some practice the religion in a bad manner, It's not the religion to be blamed or accused but those who are practicing it wrongly !!!!!!...

Originally Posted by athegan

First, sorry this might sound kinda personal but I am really sad a doctor is comparing religion to science in this manner... The discourse we follow to reach scientific theories and results is one that is subject to critique and peer review and cross experiments and blind tests...Religion has a protective shield immune to criticism...They all at some point had slain disbeliever ors even worse just doubters who wanted answers and they continue to do so today... The point is science is built on facts, religion is built on fables, superstition, and with the use of intimidation( satan, hell....believe or else) spreads to the masses....

First sorry you understood that as a comparaison
Second This is a quote said by Einstein which i totally agree with ...
Third the shame is to think that science and religion are opposites ... I can't speak on behalf of all religions but almost all of them encourage scientific researches ...
The first "آية" by the prophet Mohamad was "To Read "

اقرأ باسم ربك الذي خلق * خلق الانسان من علق * اقرأ وربك الأكرم * الذي علم بالقلم * علم الانسان ما لم يعلم

and in other occasions:

وقل رب زدني علماً
قل هل يستوي الذين يعلمون والذين لا يعلمون

and by Prophet Mohamad :

ان تفوق العالم على العابد شبيه بتفوق القمر على النجوم
اطلب العلم من المهد الى اللحد
درس ساعة خير من من عبادة عام(you'll like this one )
حبر العلماء أقدس من دم الشهداء

Also it's said that Christianity is responsible for the scientific revolution ...
and the claims that religion is based on intimidation is just an optimistic point of view or a fear from what's hidden

Originally Posted by athegan

Give me an example of a core religious belief that totally contradicts with your religion and you don't consider superstition ( it should contradict and please be honest)..

Jesus is the Son of God ... I beleive God has no sons ... and honestly i don't think it's a superstition made by the christians ... even though christians among themselves have different interpretation for this ...

Originally Posted by athegan

First of all, secular societies can be considered non-religious societies...I can give examples till tomorrow about what Canada and Sweden and Denmark and and....have done but I will only give one example. Check out how muslims are treated in European nations were Christianity is informally endorsed by the governments and check how they are treated in secular countries. Danish schools now only have halal meat, they are feeding christians halal meat and Denmark is one of the highest atheistic societies.....

in what you have said where is the threat and obstacle to civilization ? eating halal meat ?
I'll give you another worst example : nowadays Muslim = Terrorist
Is it the fault of Islam? Is it the fault of Anti-Islam? or is it due to multiple combined factors where religion is one of them and taken as an excuse or shelter ?
ba3dein to say danish schools have only halal meat, kbire shway ... eno in the recent past they were abusively mocking Prophet Mohamad ... so i don't think they care if it was halal or not ...

Originally Posted by athegan

I am against Marxian Communism more than you are, communist leaders and countries (Mao, Stalin...) didn't however do their atrocities in name of Atheism. Atheism is an empty word with no meaning. You can be an atheist and a communist, nihilist, existentialist, psychopath, VHEMT member or anything else. Atheism only means you don't believe a supreme being exists or believe a supreme being doesn't exist. I can't see why that on its own would cause atrocities...

Religious countries however, starting from ancient egypt,aztec mexico, catholic europe and ending up with the oppresive islamic states in most arabic countries do what they do and did what they did because of religion....

to combine these 2 paragraphs together, you can come to conclusion that everyone whether religious or not, atheist or not, communist or not, blablabla
did or is doing atrocities or crimes but for different reasons ... so why accusing religion as a major threat ?
i think it's explained a little in my first comment

Originally Posted by athegan

Let me explain a bit, you are probably a muslim but remember you are not defending islam, you are defending Religion... I will explain what I meant by a form of mild schizophrenia by being religion specific a bit :

Catholics: The same person who functions greatly all week thinks some wine is the blood of christ on sunday, follows a church that says condoms are the biggest evil and prohibits their use in africa causing the spread of AIDS and death of millions...the same church that blamed jews for the plague and prosecuted Galileo for saying the world is not flat....oh and they apologized only in the 1990's for that...maybe until they made sure it is flat

Mormons: You can't be a person with a responsibilities and wisdom all week while at the same time believe that the jews traveled to america in the canoe from palestine with jesus and that certian magic underwear make ur day good and dandy...

I can go on for every religion u can imagine, just ask for it and I will be happy to...when the same minds seems to function greatly on most daily stuff and then, when faith is the thing in question, a shield is placed and the most absurd things are believed and unquestioned...

look when we are talking about people like Jesus, Mohamad, Abraham, Moses,etc ... (in case you beleive that they ever existed) ... Those people aren't like you and me ... and their time is different than ours ... It will never make sense to beleive or imagine what they did ... Jesus raised the dead, Mohamad splitted the moon, etc ... they had special power to make people beleive that there is God and even thought there were doubters and unbelievers at that time so why to be surprised if we see people who don't beleive nowadays ... that time and those things ended with the last prophet Mohamad ... and it's up to you to beleive or not " لا تهدي من تحب إن الله يهدي من يشاء "

Just Imagine the world without religion (i remembered your word intimidation) ... even in the presence of religion as you desribed it "beleive or not", "satan, hell", etc ... people are doing what they are doing now ... without religion from whom you'll fear ? who's gonna stop you ? why not to kill, steal, rape, etc ... ? from what you are afraid ? what are the consequences ? ....

man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.

Originally Posted by athegan

More than welcome and thank you, I had more to say but i didnt want the post to be too long...

Thank You too ... and I really enjoy reading your comments so don't worry if they are too long

Thank You ...

[xcoder]

As i see it:

-Religion is the most unreal thing people believe in.

-The box of the non realistic answers of the non answered questions.

-Something to rely on when losing hope and faith in something, it helps to keep them strong.

-Reason to kill as well as sacrifice to help.

-Big rock in front of development and new creations

...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

You are mixing "التديّن" with "التطرّف" ... In every religion there are subcategories which allow and deny certain actions in the name of religion ...

في التوراة نجد "من قتل نفساً بدون حق فكأنما قتل الناس جميعاً
في الانجيل "طوبى لصانعي السلام فإنهم أبناء الله يدعون
في القرآن "ولا تقتلوا النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق

When some practice the religion in a bad manner, It's not the religion to be blamed or accused but those who are practicing it wrongly !!!!!!...

OK lets get something straight...ofcourse there are parasites to religion like there are parasites to everything but since we started the religious quotes thing, I will give u some quotes that are so plain and not hard to interpret,the name of the bible verse, koraan verse or 7adith will be links...I will try the most plain possible although they are everywhere....

My personal favorite from the Old Testament, the book for both Christians and Jews. Here followers of these two faiths are clearly obliged to kill those who don't observe the sabbath (saturday or sunday depending on denomination :

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death (Exodus 35:2)

I couldn't find saying for Prophet Mohammad that shia's have online ( I don't have an arabic keyboard) but we are defending religion all together...This is a hadeeth in sa7ee7 Moslem and sa7ee7 El-Bokhare... You will have a tough time justifying this for them (remember they are 85% of muslims in the world )

عن ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما ، أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : ( أمرت أن أقاتل الناس ، حتى يشهدوا أن لا إله إلا الله ، وأن محمدا رسول الله ، ويقيموا الصلاة ، ويؤتوا الزكاة ، فإذا فعلوا ذلك عصموا مني دماءهم وأموالهم إلا بحق الإسلام ، وحسابهم على الله تعالى ) رواه البخاري و مسلم

Clearly an open invitation to war...now to backwardness,intolerance and other things I don't need a lot to prove it and I will pick Islam...In a muslim nation, atheists are to be put to death, nonmuslims are to pay extra taxes(although the above quote makes you wonder how safe it is for them to live in a sunni state), women's testimony is worth half that of a man (sunnis and shias), unbelievers testimony is worthless in a muslim court(sunnis and shias) and so forth...You can the the religion enforcement in Iran and Saudi Arabia where in both there are special units to track "unmuslim" behavior....I dunno if that is your idea for faith, but all this is not a deviation from faith but an honest application of the scripture and hadith....

Originally Posted by abousoun

First sorry you understood that as a comparaison
Second This is a quote said by Einstein which i totally agree with ...
Third the shame is to think that science and religion are opposites ... I can't speak on behalf of all religions but almost all of them encourage scientific researches ...
The first "آية" by the prophet Mohamad was "To Read "

اقرأ باسم ربك الذي خلق * خلق الانسان من علق * اقرأ وربك الأكرم * الذي علم بالقلم * علم الانسان ما لم يعلم

and in other occasions:

وقل رب زدني علماً
قل هل يستوي الذين يعلمون والذين لا يعلمون

and by Prophet Mohamad :

ان تفوق العالم على العابد شبيه بتفوق القمر على النجوم
اطلب العلم من المهد الى اللحد
درس ساعة خير من من عبادة عام(you'll like this one )
حبر العلماء أقدس من دم الشهداء

Also it's said that Christianity is responsible for the scientific revolution ...
and the claims that religion is based on intimidation is just an optimistic point of view or a fear from what's hidden

As I said, religion is fond of any science that proves it right. When Galileo tried to prove the earth was round he was prosecuted. Today scientists have proven that homosexuality is innate in some animals who refrain from reproduction and have exclusively male partners, are you willing to say that homosexuality in humans is with them from birth at least in genuine cases? How is it an abomination then?Overwhelming evidence stands for evolution, I have read books on both sides and I like to think of myself as really objective(I hope I am) and it is a fact that if the theory of evolution is not true totally , it is by at least 90% and the rest is being worked on....Note that evolution doesn't disprove the existence of god,it does disprove all accounts of creation in religions and that they can't see happening without a mighty fight...It is taking place in U.S courts and in 50 years it will be taking place in the schools and courts of our arab world.....

It might be relevant to state that overwhelming majorities of scientists are either deists or atheists, and I think that totally expected since the only way we have reach the knowledge about the human body and the world around us was to abandon the limitations religion has set on us....If still stuck with the limitations you would be reading Koran versus over the head of ur patients to treat them instead of really knowing what germ theory and other theories are about....Einstein later in his life wrote "Religion and Science" which show how these two are incompatible, it took him some lecturing for his rabbi's to scare him away from dogma forever...here is a quote by him and a link for some of his related quotes:

"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being." More quotes

Originally Posted by abousoun

Jesus is the Son of God ... I beleive God has no sons ... and honestly i don't think it's a superstition made by the christians ... even though christians among themselves have different interpretation for this ...

I like to think the smiley face means that I nailed it ...well I don't believe that you regard something as the protestant belief that no matter what you do in your life, you are to go to heaven if you accept before your death Jesus Christ, the son of god, as your lord and savior who payed for your sins but a superstition.. I will not press you more with other people's beliefs, I don't want you to be in an uncomfortable position infront of christian forum members....but I know for sure your thoughts on this and the thoughts of ever non-protestant, it is common sense that online faith can make people to blind to see (if it is their faith)

Originally Posted by abousoun

in what you have said where is the threat and obstacle to civilization ? eating halal meat ?
I'll give you another worst example : nowadays Muslim = Terrorist
Is it the fault of Islam? Is it the fault of Anti-Islam? or is it due to multiple combined factors where religion is one of them and taken as an excuse or shelter ?
ba3dein to say danish schools have only halal meat, kbire shway ... eno in the recent past they were abusively mocking Prophet Mohamad ... so i don't think they care if it was halal or not ...

Check the law out....What I meant was muslims who are regarded as u said as terrorists are finding better treatment in atheistic societies and secular regimes than in Christian based ones...For an atheist, religious beliefs are delusions he/she is not concerned about unless they effect his/her life....For a religious person, others religious beliefs are wrong and might be a danger he should deal with....And the danish government has been neglected all the good it did for muslims(and for palestinians) just because it believed in freedom of speech that it had to maintain for that caricature fellow....

Originally Posted by abousoun

to combine these 2 paragraphs together, you can come to conclusion that everyone whether religious or not, atheist or not, communist or not, blablabla
did or is doing atrocities or crimes but for different reasons ... so why accusing religion as a major threat ?
i think it's explained a little in my first comment

Again, Religion tells you to do atrocities if taken literally...it tells you certain people should die etc etc....Whereas if you are an atheist, you might still do all that, out of belief in communism or nihilism or some serious twists of natural selection but you are not obliged by a celestial dictator to do it....there is no divine manifesto that obliges you to do it...

Originally Posted by abousoun

look when we are talking about people like Jesus, Mohamad, Abraham, Moses,etc ... (in case you beleive that they ever existed) ... Those people aren't like you and me ... and their time is different than ours ... It will never make sense to beleive or imagine what they did ... Jesus raised the dead, Mohamad splitted the moon, etc ... they had special power to make people beleive that there is God and even thought there were doubters and unbelievers at that time so why to be surprised if we see people who don't beleive nowadays ... that time and those things ended with the last prophet Mohamad ... and it's up to you to beleive or not " لا تهدي من تحب إن الله يهدي من يشاء "

Just Imagine the world without religion (i remembered your word intimidation) ... even in the presence of religion as you desribed it "beleive or not", "satan, hell", etc ... people are doing what they are doing now ... without religion from whom you'll fear ? who's gonna stop you ? why not to kill, steal, rape, etc ... ? from what you are afraid ? what are the consequences ? ....

man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.

On the first paragraph, I find the "allaho yahde man yasha2 thing" both amusing as it kinda lifts some weight of my shoulders in case he exists and religion is right about him and at the same time amusing because I feel you are reaching the point of giving up on me ...lazy preacher indeed ....well Jesus existed before he actually existed, the miracles were performed by sons of gods in egyptian mythology and stolen and used in Christian theology and respectively Muslim theology....Check out the story of Mithra for example ,born a long time before Jesus in what is today Iran...here is an excerpt of similarities

1- The virgin birth of Mithra.

2- The annual celebration of his birthday on December 25th.

3- Sunday, the day of the sun, was considered a sacred day by Mithraists

4- The ritualistic baptism which was required of the faithful, who had a special wine and bread after the ceremony.

5- After his earthly mission had been completed, Mithra had his last supper with his 12 companions (after the 12 zodiac signs), whereafter he ascended to heaven to watch over his followers for all time.

6- The body of Mithra was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

The same story is repeated in many other religions and has been justified as all linked with astrology and here is a video showing how (I recommend that everyone would see it especially christians) :

Vcoderz.Com

On your second paragraph, when I see sweden and I compare it to religious societies I fee proud I am an atheist to be honest with you and I do feel that the proposition that strict code or manifesto is the only way for us to be ethical disgracing to us as humans....Scaring people into believing that they need a priest to tell them what to do or else their children will be slaughtered in the streets is an old trick used a lot in politics especially by tyrannical regimes and employed by the republican party in the U.S. a lot and by 14 march nowadays who use HA as a scarecrow that can justify their ways.....My 2 favorite Einstein quotes on the matter (which I have used in this forum before) :

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.

Originally Posted by abousoun

Thank You too ... and I really enjoy reading your comments so don't worry if they are too long

Thank You ...

I will not worry ....I didn't in this post

Note: Whoever doesn't watch the video has no right to debate me


Peace

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

My personal favorite from the Old Testament, the book for both Christians and Jews. Here followers of these two faiths are clearly obliged to kill those who don't observe the sabbath (saturday or sunday depending on denomination :
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death (Exodus 35:2)

adding to it "...You shall not kindle fire in any of your dwelling places on the Sabbath day" meaning you can't cook or use the oven on sabbath
There are many similar quotes to this in exodus where you'll be put to death in case you curse your father or mother, lived with an animal, kidnapped a person and sell it !!!!!
but whose words are these ? God ? Moses ?
and What does the New Testament says about this ? I remember i read somewhere that you are not even forbidden to kill in the new testament, you are forbidden to hate ...

Originally Posted by athegan

I couldn't find saying for Prophet Mohammad that shia's have online ( I don't have an arabic keyboard) but we are defending religion all together...This is a hadeeth in sa7ee7 Moslem and sa7ee7 El-Bokhare... You will have a tough time justifying this for them (remember they are 85% of muslims in the world )

عن ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما ، أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : ( أمرت أن أقاتل الناس ، حتى يشهدوا أن لا إله إلا الله ، وأن محمدا رسول الله ، ويقيموا الصلاة ، ويؤتوا الزكاة ، فإذا فعلوا ذلك عصموا مني دماءهم وأموالهم إلا بحق الإسلام ، وحسابهم على الله تعالى ) رواه البخاري و مسلم

This saying was revealed during "abou baker" reign ... when he was opposed by "Omar" because he wanted to attack a tribe because they are not paying "zakeit" and they were muslims, so "Omar" reminded him of this quote and that he shouldn't attack them ... however you'll find many many modalities of this quote which is not well documented and not agreed on ...
I'll stick to the quran which says

قل يا أيها الكافرون * لا أعبد ما تعبدون * ولا انتم عابدون ما أعبد * ولا انا عابد ما عبدتم * ولا أنتم عابدون ما أعبد * لكم دينكم ولي دين

If that quote was applicable, then you wouldn't see any non-muslim in this world ...

Originally Posted by athegan

now to backwardness,intolerance and other things I don't need a lot to prove it and I will pick Islam...In a muslim nation, atheists are to be put to death, nonmuslims are to pay extra taxes(although the above quote makes you wonder how safe it is for them to live in a sunni state), women's testimony is worth half that of a man (sunnis and shias), unbelievers testimony is worthless in a muslim court(sunnis and shias) and so forth...You can the the religion enforcement in Iran and Saudi Arabia where in both there are special units to track "unmuslim" behavior....I dunno if that is your idea for faith, but all this is not a deviation from faith but an honest application of the scripture and hadith....

actually some of what you said is the application of scripture and hadith like testimonies ... and others are just pure deviations (hayda iza badde emshe bi 7akyak w 2oul mazbout hal chi 3am bissir)
and since you are in USA what is the first thing they tell you to say when you want to testify in a court ? "swear to say the truth and nothing but the truth and so help you God" ...

Originally Posted by athegan

As I said, religion is fond of any science that proves it right. When Galileo tried to prove the earth was round he was prosecuted. Today scientists have proven that homosexuality is innate in some animals who refrain from reproduction and have exclusively male partners, are you willing to say that homosexuality in humans is with them from birth at least in genuine cases? How is it an abomination then?

RIP Galileo ... I swear I didn't kill him
according to Freud Humans are born bisexual, and then throughout development they become monosexual ... true or not i don't know ... it's just a theory ...
but animals differ from humans ... the male "فرس البحر" is the one who gets pregnant !!! while in humans the female is the one who gets pregnant ...
saying that homosexuals are born innate is not a thing that can be proven scientifically since homosexuality is sexual behavior and behavior is abstract ..
However, there are some chromosomal abnormalities which could alter such behavior ...
The reason why almost all religions have to make homosexuality a forbidden act because this will endanger the reproduction and preservation of the human race ... also because scientifically speaking homosexuality carries along with a lot of diseases ...
The Holy Quran has given this subject the importance it deserves, where the story of Lot has been mentioned in some eleven chapters, reiterating that sodomy is a repugnant practice because it represents a departure from satisfying one’s sexual needs in the way God has preordained. It has been described as a deed that is vile, and objectionable.

Originally Posted by athegan

Overwhelming evidence stands for evolution, I have read books on both sides and I like to think of myself as really objective(I hope I am) and it is a fact that if the theory of evolution is not true totally , it is by at least 90% and the rest is being worked on....Note that evolution doesn't disprove the existence of god,it does disprove all accounts of creation in religions and that they can't see happening without a mighty fight...It is taking place in U.S courts and in 50 years it will be taking place in the schools and courts of our arab world.....

If evolution doesn't disprove God, so what was his role ? biologists, scientists, religious, etc are still debating if evolution is a fact or theory ... and i don't see we can get into conclusion in the near future ...

Originally Posted by athegan

It might be relevant to state that overwhelming majorities of scientists are either deists or atheists, and I think that totally expected since the only way we have reach the knowledge about the human body and the world around us was to abandon the limitations religion has set on us....If still stuck with the limitations you would be reading Koran versus over the head of ur patients to treat them instead of really knowing what germ theory and other theories are about....

This is totally untrue ... in my earlier post, i told you how many religions encourage science
The holy quran states : وما أوتيتم من العلم إلا قليلا
and the miracle of Quran appears in :
{ ولقد خلقنا الإنسان من سلالة من طين ¤ ثم جعلناه نطفة في قرار مكين ¤ ثم خلقنا النطفة علقة فخلقنا العلقة مضغة فخلقنا المضغة عظاما فكسونا العظام لحما ثم أنشأناه خلقًا آخر فتبارك الله أحسن الخالقين}
This was written more than 1400 years ago, do you know till when it was discovered ?

Originally Posted by athegan

Einstein later in his life wrote "Religion and Science" which show how these two are incompatible, it took him some lecturing for his rabbi's to scare him away from dogma forever...here is a quote by him and a link for some of his related quotes:
"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being." More quotes

I'm not discussing Einstein beleif or not here, It was a quote that i agreed on ... but to note that your quote was in 1936, while the one i posted was in 1941 which is later ... There are many contradicting quotes to him ... but it's not the issue here

Originally Posted by athegan

I like to think the smiley face means that I nailed it ...well I don't believe that you regard something as the protestant belief that no matter what you do in your life, you are to go to heaven if you accept before your death Jesus Christ, the son of god, as your lord and savior who payed for your sins but a superstition.. I will not press you more with other people's beliefs, I don't want you to be in an uncomfortable position infront of christian forum members....but I know for sure your thoughts on this and the thoughts of ever non-protestant, it is common sense that online faith can make people to blind to see (if it is their faith)

okey now you are mixing thinngs together ...
is it jesus the son of god a superstition ? or you'll go to heaven if you accept jesus the son of god as your savior no matter what you do i life ?
these are not the same situation
and don't worry about me, i don't get uncomfortable easily ... however i prefer christians members to debate this ... rather than muslim and atheist

Originally Posted by athegan

Again, Religion tells you to do atrocities if taken literally...it tells you certain people should die etc etc....Whereas if you are an atheist, you might still do all that, out of belief in communism or nihilism or some serious twists of natural selection but you are not obliged by a celestial dictator to do it....there is no divine manifesto that obliges you to do it...

there is no divine manifesto that obliges you do do anything according to aheists ... so don't you think this is more dangerous than religion ?
since most of this debate concerning religion was focusing on killing and as you are trying to show that almost all religions are encouraging killing in a way or another ... i'll agree on this for the sake of conversation ...
killing in relgion selected certain people (those who work on sabbath, not muslim, cursed fathe, blablabla) ... but didn't oblige you to kill ... ya3ne it's okey to kill an atheist (still for the sake of conversation) but if you don't that doesn't mean you are going to hell ....
however in atheism, you are not obliged to kill anybody but you can still kill anybody ...

Originally Posted by athegan

On the first paragraph, I find the "allaho yahde man yasha2 thing" both amusing as it kinda lifts some weight of my shoulders in case he exists and religion is right about him and at the same time amusing because I feel you are reaching the point of giving up on me ...lazy preacher indeed ....well Jesus existed before he actually existed, the miracles were performed by sons of gods in egyptian mythology and stolen and used in Christian theology and respectively Muslim theology....Check out the story of Mithra for example ,born a long time before Jesus in what is today Iran...here is an excerpt of similarities
1- The virgin birth of Mithra.
2- The annual celebration of his birthday on December 25th.
3- Sunday, the day of the sun, was considered a sacred day by Mithraists
4- The ritualistic baptism which was required of the faithful, who had a special wine and bread after the ceremony.
5- After his earthly mission had been completed, Mithra had his last supper with his 12 companions (after the 12 zodiac signs), whereafter he ascended to heaven to watch over his followers for all time.
6- The body of Mithra was laid to rest in a rock tomb.
The same story is repeated in many other religions and has been justified as all linked with astrology and here is a video showing how (I recommend that everyone would see it especially christians)

This saying :
"and it's up to you to beleive or not لا تهدي من تحب إن الله يهدي من "يشاء
was not dedicated to you specifically, it's generally speaking
Concerning Mithra and the video you posted and all the similarities between certain Gods and Jesus i found many missleading informations just to focus on certain similarities like son and sun (homonyms) while in latin son is filius and sun is sol ... there are certain wrong dates with wrong names which i looked up on the net ... dont' want to enter in the detail of each one of them ...
an example of Jesus and Mithra can be read in the below link (i didn't read all of it coz chi bizahhi2 )
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
and for every similar god there is an anti-story for it like the above ...
eno it's amuzing and really helpful for some atheists, but still don't deny the presence of God nor the absence of Jesus

Originally Posted by athegan

On your second paragraph, when I see sweden and I compare it to religious societies I fee proud I am an atheist to be honest with you and I do feel that the proposition that strict code or manifesto is the only way for us to be ethical disgracing to us as humans....Scaring people into believing that they need a priest to tell them what to do or else their children will be slaughtered in the streets is an old trick used a lot in politics especially by tyrannical regimes and employed by the republican party in the U.S. a lot and by 14 march nowadays who use HA as a scarecrow that can justify their ways......

Again same story seeing religion as an act of killing and brutality ... discussed before ...
I'll conclude with my first quote :

man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

adding to it "...You shall not kindle fire in any of your dwelling places on the Sabbath day" meaning you can't cook or use the oven on sabbath
There are many similar quotes to this in exodus where you'll be put to death in case you curse your father or mother, lived with an animal, kidnapped a person and sell it !!!!!
but whose words are these ? God ? Moses ?
and What does the New Testament says about this ? I remember i read somewhere that you are not even forbidden to kill in the new testament, you are forbidden to hate ...

Did I win this point ...you just agreed that the two books christians believe are the exact word of God are contradictory....if there was a crowd he will be clapping for me and the moderator would be telling u to move on to another point

Originally Posted by abousoun

This saying was revealed during "abou baker" reign ... when he was opposed by "Omar" because he wanted to attack a tribe because they are not paying "zakeit" and they were muslims, so "Omar" reminded him of this quote and that he shouldn't attack them ... however you'll find many many modalities of this quote which is not well documented and not agreed on ...
I'll stick to the quran which says

قل يا أيها الكافرون * لا أعبد ما تعبدون * ولا انتم عابدون ما أعبد * ولا انا عابد ما عبدتم * ولا أنتم عابدون ما أعبد * لكم دينكم ولي دين

If that quote was applicable, then you wouldn't see any non-muslim in this world ...

Historical context is not that relevant....Not documented? Sa7ee7 moslem and l bokhare are like a second koraan to 85% of muslims!! Again muslim sharee3a doesn't stop in the koraan but also relies heavily on the hadeeth....This is a cute quote in bokhare too(remember saudi's actually believe this,but so do shee3as concerning the last part about apostasy) :


Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Some Zanadiqa were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


It does seem that at times when Mohammad was weak and his followers where weak that was the kinda ayas being "revealed"...as the allegiance became wider and he became more powerful, an open letter to evangelism( nasher l da3wa) was the method regardless of the method (lahom deenahom battalet kteer aseseyye)

Originally Posted by abousoun

actually some of what you said is the application of scripture and hadith like testimonies ... and others are just pure deviations (hayda iza badde emshe bi 7akyak w 2oul mazbout hal chi 3am bissir)
and since you are in USA what is the first thing they tell you to say when you want to testify in a court ? "swear to say the truth and nothing but the truth and so help you God" ...

ok I know it is application of scripture and hadith and hoon l moshkle You didn't kindly specify which ones are the deviations so I can get you the Irani law...plz do that...

Funny you say that, and the point? since when is the U.S.A my moral authority or yours (lek malla moral authority )

Originally Posted by abousoun

RIP Galileo ... I swear I didn't kill him
according to Freud Humans are born bisexual, and then throughout development they become monosexual ... true or not i don't know ... it's just a theory ...
but animals differ from humans ... the male "فرس البحر" is the one who gets pregnant !!! while in humans the female is the one who gets pregnant ...
saying that homosexuals are born innate is not a thing that can be proven scientifically since homosexuality is sexual behavior and behavior is abstract ..
However, there are some chromosomal abnormalities which could alter such behavior ...
The reason why almost all religions have to make homosexuality a forbidden act because this will endanger the reproduction and preservation of the human race ... also because scientifically speaking homosexuality carries along with a lot of diseases ...
The Holy Quran has given this subject the importance it deserves, where the story of Lot has been mentioned in some eleven chapters, reiterating that sodomy is a repugnant practice because it represents a departure from satisfying one’s sexual needs in the way God has preordained. It has been described as a deed that is vile, and objectionable.

Well, first of all this is where evolution comes in...I will answer about evolution to the later quote... The key aspects of evolution are survival and reproduction .... we are wired to care and pursue both so the thing about homosexuals becoming the majority is not to be a trouble, no recorded species has gone extinct because of such a reason which opens the second point.....

If we are wired to reproduce and if homosexuals have been this persecuted throughout history and discriminated against from Lot till now, why the hell do they still exist? doesn't that show some mighty will and determination to exist and have homosexual sex? they are doing it just for the sake of objecting the word of god?

As for the diseases associated with homosexuality, I am entering your territory doc But I can humbly talk about AIDS since I have read some statistics and research about it....The parts I can recall first show that africa's widespread HIV is a result of heterosexual sex mainly, then comes HIV through pregnancy then homosexuality...Another research the evangelists in the U.S has twisted shows that not homosexual sex but homosexual rape (mostly in prisons ) is the reason behind the high number of HIV resulting from homosexual behavior....

Finally, ur approach to an atheist when it comes to the koran is not that constructive...it is like when muslims tell me the koran is the perfect word of god because it is written in the koran that it is the perfect word of god

Originally Posted by abousoun

If evolution doesn't disprove God, so what was his role ? biologists, scientists, religious, etc are still debating if evolution is a fact or theory ... and i don't see we can get into conclusion in the near future ...

LOL....Its role is something beyond what can be said in a forum....It is the theory how existent forms of life evolved from more primitive and basic forms, starting with bacteria and ending with something as sophisticated as the variety you can see...

Conclusion we got to already, I seriously doubt I can explain what is the evidence here....All what I can do is humbly, and if you are interested, PM you or whoever likes with the best books I have read on the subject or hook u up with some websites...Evolution with its basic assumptions is 100% true as gravity...the debate among scientists is strictly about details like the pace of evolution and the frequency of variations and so forth....

Finally here, religious ppl (theologians) have no business debating evolution . The best they can do is look around the world for biologists who don't agree with it and give them money to debate for them...Evolution proves the story of creation, of religions, wrong but has nothing to directly say "there is no god"....Indeed some scientists are theists, but very few take religion as a literal word of god and none will tell u that he/she believes the adam and eve thing...thats why deists and pantheist agree with evolution and some christians who now accept that the stories in the old testament are basically metaphorical....

Originally Posted by abousoun

This is totally untrue ... in my earlier post, i told you how many religions encourage science
The holy quran states : وما أوتيتم من العلم إلا قليلا
and the miracle of Quran appears in :
{ ولقد خلقنا الإنسان من سلالة من طين ¤ ثم جعلناه نطفة في قرار مكين ¤ ثم خلقنا النطفة علقة فخلقنا العلقة مضغة فخلقنا المضغة عظاما فكسونا العظام لحما ثم أنشأناه خلقًا آخر فتبارك الله أحسن الخالقين}
This was written more than 1400 years ago, do you know till when it was discovered ?

What part? the one that we are made from teen when was that "discovered" I am here and I will live long, I will remind you when religion endorses evolution and says that "teen" is a reference to carbon atoms Smart of you to dismiss what I said about Galileo and how the church limited him in this reply

Originally Posted by abousoun

I'm not discussing Einstein beleif or not here, It was a quote that i agreed on ... but to note that your quote was in 1936, while the one i posted was in 1941 which is later ... There are many contradicting quotes to him ... but it's not the issue here

Yeah...don't quote him before checking out all his quotes

Originally Posted by abousoun

okey now you are mixing thinngs together ...
is it jesus the son of god a superstition ? or you'll go to heaven if you accept jesus the son of god as your savior no matter what you do i life ?
these are not the same situation
and don't worry about me, i don't get uncomfortable easily ... however i prefer christians members to debate this ... rather than muslim and atheist

to me it is a superstition...to you it is...to most protestants the answer to your second question is an astounding yes....
I hope they get on board too...ma3 enno la 7alak ballashet tet3ebne

Originally Posted by abousoun

there is no divine manifesto that obliges you do do anything according to aheists ... so don't you think this is more dangerous than religion ?
since most of this debate concerning religion was focusing on killing and as you are trying to show that almost all religions are encouraging killing in a way or another ... i'll agree on this for the sake of conversation ...
killing in relgion selected certain people (those who work on sabbath, not muslim, cursed fathe, blablabla) ... but didn't oblige you to kill ... ya3ne it's okey to kill an atheist (still for the sake of conversation) but if you don't that doesn't mean you are going to hell ....
however in atheism, you are not obliged to kill anybody but you can still kill anybody ...

First of all,don't assume for the sake of conversation....admit that every religion has a special black list of people

Well yeah you nailed it....we humans can specify our goals and thats the part that makes me a proud atheist....the trust in our own good as opposed to being obedient slaves dictated what to do....20th century with the rise of communism had some brutal atheist but christians and muslims filled the first 19 centuries alright...so i dunno how helpful was religion if not harmful to stop them....

Atheism is not a philosophy or a world view or concept, it is merely like the fact that you ,I hope, don't believe in astrology because you don't see enough evidence that Uranus effects your life....Does you anti-astrology stance dictate anything?

BTW...for those who don't know, Buddhists are atheists ...and I will tell you that if the world was full of only buddhists we probably won't be debating "violent" religions....

Originally Posted by abousoun

This saying :
"and it's up to you to beleive or not لا تهدي من تحب إن الله يهدي من "يشاء
was not dedicated to you specifically, it's generally speaking
Concerning Mithra and the video you posted and all the similarities between certain Gods and Jesus i found many missleading informations just to focus on certain similarities like son and sun (homonyms) while in latin son is filius and sun is sol ... there are certain wrong dates with wrong names which i looked up on the net ... dont' want to enter in the detail of each one of them ...
an example of Jesus and Mithra can be read in the below link (i didn't read all of it coz chi bizahhi2 )
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
and for every similar god there is an anti-story for it like the above ...
eno it's amuzing and really helpful for some atheists, but still don't deny the presence of God nor the absence of Jesus

Oh my....and horus and Ises are wrong?

The story about jesus is either exaggerated and attached to some supernatural package or a fable, a flok story just like those of vampires and leprechauns that some people in europe still believe...The story of the existence of god is something else, the thread is about religion...

If you care enough to see the plagiarism in the old testament from egyptian mythology check out ( The Hymn of Aten) and compare it to (Psalm 104)....(I wrote an article about it that I can send you if you are interested)

Originally Posted by abousoun

Again same story seeing religion as an act of killing and brutality ... discussed before ...
I'll conclude with my first quote :

man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.

Thank You ...

oh boy I was talking about the scarecrow that is saying without religion ppl will be slaughtered...this is more of politics employed by religious ppl...it is clear that you are getting bored by the end and the replies of topic baseeta i understand just don't get bored when you are performing 8 hour surgeries and close the patient up before you are done

Thank you

[abousoun]

Originally Posted by athegan

Did I win this point ...you just agreed that the two books christians believe are the exact word of God are contradictory....if there was a crowd he will be clapping for me and the moderator would be telling u to move on to another point

No You didn't, that was an irony ... cause the christians (akid not all of them) adopted the new testament ... and as i remember there was sayings that the old testament wasn't written by Moses and there is passages in that testament that confirm this ... ma ele jlede 3al search

Originally Posted by athegan

Historical context is not that relevant....Not documented? Sa7ee7 moslem and l bokhare are like a second koraan to 85% of muslims!! Again muslim sharee3a doesn't stop in the koraan but also relies heavily on the hadeeth....This is a cute quote in bokhare too(remember saudi's actually believe this,but so do shee3as concerning the last part about apostasy) :
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Some Zanadiqa were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
It does seem that at times when Mohammad was weak and his followers where weak that was the kinda ayas being "revealed"...as the allegiance became wider and he became more powerful, an open letter to evangelism( nasher l da3wa) was the method regardless of the method (lahom deenahom battalet kteer aseseyye)

Man you must be kidding me here ... everything in this world change except what's written in Quran ... lahom deenahom battalt assesseye and the words of muslim and boukhari are what count !!!!!!!! btw you forgot to put after zandiqa (atheist)
The Quran is very clear in the point i mentioned ...
and concerning shee3a part where they kill who change the islam religion is a total crap ... and btw some authors say if a shiite kills a sunnite (who is muslim too) will enter heaven

I said in my first reply that you should differentiate extremists (motatarrifin) whom as you described are parasites

Originally Posted by athegan

ok I know it is application of scripture and hadith and hoon l moshkle You didn't kindly specify which ones are the deviations so I can get you the Irani law...plz do that...
Funny you say that, and the point? since when is the U.S.A my moral authority or yours (lek malla moral authority )

I and You can't punish the countries for the laws they put ...
and the point that you sadly didn't understand about USA that you were accusing religious countries for backwardness and intolerance and blablabla ... USA which is a very open minded country where atheists live happily ... have this rule in its court and i know it's not that moral authority bass consider it as a contre-example

Originally Posted by athegan

Well, first of all this is where evolution comes in...I will answer about evolution to the later quote... The key aspects of evolution are survival and reproduction .... we are wired to care and pursue both so the thing about homosexuals becoming the majority is not to be a trouble, no recorded species has gone extinct because of such a reason which opens the second point.....
If we are wired to reproduce and if homosexuals have been this persecuted throughout history and discriminated against from Lot till now, why the hell do they still exist? doesn't that show some mighty will and determination to exist and have homosexual sex? they are doing it just for the sake of objecting the word of god?

ayya recorded species are not extinct because of homosexuality ? and who told you that if homosexuality became the majority this will cause no trouble ... this is the problem you are still theoratically speaking about evolution ...

Originally Posted by athegan

As for the diseases associated with homosexuality, I am entering your territory doc But I can humbly talk about AIDS since I have read some statistics and research about it....The parts I can recall first show that africa's widespread HIV is a result of heterosexual sex mainly, then comes HIV through pregnancy then homosexuality...Another research the evangelists in the U.S has twisted shows that not homosexual sex but homosexual rape (mostly in prisons ) is the reason behind the high number of HIV resulting from homosexual behavior....

what have you read is true but i think you missunderstood it ... it's true that heterosexual are the main cause ... but that's because heterosexual are more than homosexual ... but homosexual carries higher risk than heterosexual to get AIDS ... but their number will be still less than heterosexual if we want to count all the cases ...

Originally Posted by athegan

Finally, ur approach to an atheist when it comes to the koran is not that constructive...it is like when muslims tell me the koran is the perfect word of god because it is written in the koran that it is the perfect word of god

I wasn't talking about atheist ... it was about homosexuals ... read again

Originally Posted by athegan

LOL....Its role is something beyond what can be said in a forum....It is the theory how existent forms of life evolved from more primitive and basic forms, starting with bacteria and ending with something as sophisticated as the variety you can see...

from where this bacteria came ?

Originally Posted by athegan

Conclusion we got to already, I seriously doubt I can explain what is the evidence here....All what I can do is humbly, and if you are interested, PM you or whoever likes with the best books I have read on the subject or hook u up with some websites...Evolution with its basic assumptions is 100% true as gravity...the debate among scientists is strictly about details like the pace of evolution and the frequency of variations and so forth....

Finally here, religious ppl (theologians) have no business debating evolution . The best they can do is look around the world for biologists who don't agree with it and give them money to debate for them...Evolution proves the story of creation, of religions, wrong but has nothing to directly say "there is no god"....Indeed some scientists are theists, but very few take religion as a literal word of god and none will tell u that he/she believes the adam and eve thing...thats why deists and pantheist agree with evolution and some christians who now accept that the stories in the old testament are basically metaphorical....

No test has ever been found that can tell the difference between a universe created by God, and one that appeared without him, hayda iza badna nballish with question who created the universe

Originally Posted by athegan

What part? the one that we are made from teen when was that "discovered" I am here and I will live long, I will remind you when religion endorses evolution and says that "teen" is a reference to carbon atoms Smart of you to dismiss what I said about Galileo and how the church limited him in this reply ....

again you missed the point sadly ... i wasn't talking about the clay ... the part that concern me is the "notfa" which is the spermatozoa which get engaged with the ovary to make the zygote "3alqa" then the zygote will become the embryo, etc .... all these were mentioned in holy Quran thousands of year ago, and until recently discovered ... eno mish ktir recently

Originally Posted by athegan

Yeah...don't quote him before checking out all his quotes ..

I think this part for you to remember

Originally Posted by athegan

to me it is a superstition...to you it is...to most protestants the answer to your second question is an astounding yes....
I hope they get on board too...ma3 enno la 7alak ballashet tet3ebne ..

well as i said earlier, this part concerning that Jesus is the son of God is not adobted by all christians ... w heik side story ... my friend non christian wants to marry a christian girl ... he wants to change his religion ... so he is taking courses in the church ... and according to him (from what he understood) is that Jesus is God himself but he was in a human body ... so not all christian adopt this theory ... or my friend was sleeping the whole time and didn't understood anything

Originally Posted by athegan

First of all,don't assume for the sake of conversation....admit that every religion has a special black list of people

this is something covered above

Originally Posted by athegan

Well yeah you nailed it....we humans can specify our goals and thats the part that makes me a proud atheist....the trust in our own good as opposed to being obedient slaves dictated what to do....20th century with the rise of communism had some brutal atheist but christians and muslims filled the first 19 centuries alright...so i dunno how helpful was religion if not harmful to stop them...
Atheism is not a philosophy or a world view or concept, it is merely like the fact that you ,I hope, don't believe in astrology because you don't see enough evidence that Uranus effects your life....Does you anti-astrology stance dictate anything?
BTW...for those who don't know, Buddhists are atheists ...and I will tell you that if the world was full of only buddhists we probably won't be debating "violent" religions.......

Goals made by humans and trust by your own good and not dictated ... if you can accomplish this then you'll be more religious than i am
but there are serious questions you didn't answer ... eno akid mish kel el atheists are angels (sorry they don't exist ) okey are well behaved ... what if you are a bad atheist ... bte3mol elli baddak yeh w btozmot ? this way they'll be screwing good atheist

Originally Posted by athegan

Oh my....and horus and Ises are wrong?

The story about jesus is either exaggerated and attached to some supernatural package or a fable, a flok story just like those of vampires and leprechauns that some people in europe still believe...The story of the existence of god is something else, the thread is about religion...

If you care enough to see the plagiarism in the old testament from egyptian mythology check out ( The Hymn of Aten) and compare it to (Psalm 104)....(I wrote an article about it that I can send you if you are interested)

I told you there are many stories over the net similar to your one ... with anti-stories for them ... I enjoyed the video with the explanation (really not kidding) but obviously there are mistakes ... w fi gheir videos i watched and stories i read with more description and details ( i remembered one ... Hercules is Jesus)
concerning that the thread about religion ... sar 5abiss ktir ... evolution w religion w homosexuality w nejmeh w anssar
and send me whatever you think it will be a nice thing to read

Originally Posted by athegan

oh boy I was talking about the scarecrow that is saying without religion ppl will be slaughtered...this is more of politics employed by religious ppl...it is clear that you are getting bored by the end and the replies of topic baseeta i understand just don't get bored when you are performing 8 hour surgeries and close the patient up before you are done

actually you were talking about the scarecrow that says beware of religion, you can run but you can't run ... sooner or later i'll catch you and you'll die
btw i'm a doctor in internal medicine (ba3dne 3am e3mol specialization), ma 5assne in these surgeons that disobey God and open people while all they have to do is to read 2eye min el enjil or quran

Thank You ...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by abousoun

No You didn't, that was an irony ... cause the christians (akid not all of them) adopted the new testament ... and as i remember there was sayings that the old testament wasn't written by Moses and there is passages in that testament that confirm this ... ma ele jlede 3al search

All christians believe in bothe the new and old testament...don't ask me about the contradiction between the two books...question the author (presumably god )

Originally Posted by abousoun

Man you must be kidding me here ... everything in this world change except what's written in Quran ... lahom deenahom battalt assesseye and the words of muslim and boukhari are what count !!!!!!!! btw you forgot to put after zandiqa (atheist)

It doesn't seem aseseyye..at least in practice...A theory that fails in practice is still invalid...show me one muslim success story...btw l bokhare is important to sunnis( I am sure you know that)

Originally Posted by abousoun

The Quran is very clear in the point i mentioned ...
and concerning shee3a part where they kill who change the islam religion is a total crap ... and btw some authors say if a shiite kills a sunnite (who is muslim too) will enter heaven

I am sure the have some sort of holy saying by a prophet or a far cousin to rely on

Originally Posted by abousoun

I said in my first reply that you should differentiate extremists (motatarrifin) whom as you described are parasites

Do you think their is a line between extreme and moderate? are these two distinct discrete groups or is it more like a degree along the religiosity spectrum ?

Originally Posted by abousoun

I and You can't punish the countries for the laws they put ...
and the point that you sadly didn't understand about USA that you were accusing religious countries for backwardness and intolerance and blablabla ... USA which is a very open minded country where atheists live happily ... have this rule in its court and i know it's not that moral authority bass consider it as a contre-example

I understood your point...atheists don't live happily here and you will not find me in any of my posts saying that the U.S is a haven for secularism or even freedom...This country is as religious as anything can be...

Originally Posted by abousoun

ayya recorded species are not extinct because of homosexuality ? and who told you that if homosexuality became the majority this will cause no trouble ... this is the problem you are still theoratically speaking about evolution ...

I said homosexuality can't be a majority for the very reason that can lead to the extinction of the species...Yeah I am talking evolution and where is the problem?

Originally Posted by abousoun

what have you read is true but i think you missunderstood it ... it's true that heterosexual are the main cause ... but that's because heterosexual are more than homosexual ... but homosexual carries higher risk than heterosexual to get AIDS ... but their number will be still less than heterosexual if we want to count all the cases ...

So a higher risk is now a reason for making something illegal or immoral? How about smoking, red meat, trans fat in food and a lot of other things that include a higher risk for tons of diseases?
I will tell you what is immoral...it is a church preaching that condoms are the biggest evil and getting them banned in many african countries. Many kids in africa are gonna die and every catholic in the world is responsible.

How religion (in this case catholicism) can label the first case immoral and abomination and the second the word of god? Well, it is religion.

Originally Posted by abousoun

from where this bacteria came ?

Organic molecules, basically of carbon that were available in the primeval soup tend to lead to the formation of larger molecules that have a resemblance to RNA....

BTW this was reproduced in a LAB and RNA like molecules were formed...yes out of nothing but carbon, oxygen and sunlight....

Originally Posted by abousoun

No test has ever been found that can tell the difference between a universe created by God, and one that appeared without him, hayda iza badna nballish with question who created the universe

Too long to answer.... Read this book (if u care enough)
God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist (Victor Stenger)

Originally Posted by abousoun

again you missed the point sadly ... i wasn't talking about the clay ... the part that concern me is the "notfa" which is the spermatozoa which get engaged with the ovary to make the zygote "3alqa" then the zygote will become the embryo, etc .... all these were mentioned in holy Quran thousands of year ago, and until recently discovered ... eno mish ktir recently

LOL....why they were never invested until westerners discovered them for themselves? maybe it is something about the vague language?

Originally Posted by abousoun

I think this part for you to remember

No...his letters to the rabbi who asked him about his religion are enough for me....they show what he believes in...but it seems like with his scientific theories, it will take some time for people to understand his concept of "god" and "religion"

Originally Posted by abousoun

well as i said earlier, this part concerning that Jesus is the son of God is not adobted by all christians ... w heik side story ... my friend non christian wants to marry a christian girl ... he wants to change his religion ... so he is taking courses in the church ... and according to him (from what he understood) is that Jesus is God himself but he was in a human body ... so not all christian adopt this theory ... or my friend was sleeping the whole time and didn't understood anything

Believe me I know more about christianity than most of christians themselves ESPECIALLY their theology...
I don't see anything else in this part to reply to...

Originally Posted by abousoun

Goals made by humans and trust by your own good and not dictated ... if you can accomplish this then you'll be more religious than i am
but there are serious questions you didn't answer ... eno akid mish kel el atheists are angels (sorry they don't exist ) okey are well behaved ... what if you are a bad atheist ... bte3mol elli baddak yeh w btozmot ? this way they'll be screwing good atheist

LOL define religious then.....
They will be screwing all of us...just like what u labeled "extremists" are screwing the rest of you....BTW "extremists" are more honest in their approach than moderates since they take things literally
I will be a good person because I want to be a good person...Not because a supreme dictator is watching every small thought that runs through my head...In this stance, like Hitchens said, I am not only and atheist but also an anti-theist...Not only I don't think such a creature exists but also am happy that he/she/it/they doesn't/don't exist....

Originally Posted by abousoun

I told you there are many stories over the net similar to your one ... with anti-stories for them ... I enjoyed the video with the explanation (really not kidding) but obviously there are mistakes ... w fi gheir videos i watched and stories i read with more description and details ( i remembered one ... Hercules is Jesus)
concerning that the thread about religion ... sar 5abiss ktir ... evolution w religion w homosexuality w nejmeh w anssar
and send me whatever you think it will be a nice thing to read

There is a lot of made up stuff...I try as much as possible to find well documented stuff...Anyway the one I last told you about is for sure mazbouta...Psalm 104 is in any bible and the egyptian prayer is in any history book with the picture of the stone it was engraved on...

Originally Posted by abousoun

actually you were talking about the scarecrow that says beware of religion, you can run but you can't run ... sooner or later i'll catch you and you'll die

Again.. I was talking about religious ppl (you ) telling ppl(vcoderz members )
that if everyone turns atheist (me ) chaos will be all over so that the ppl will stick to religion ....I hope the analogy helps

Originally Posted by abousoun

btw i'm a doctor in internal medicine (ba3dne 3am e3mol specialization), ma 5assne in these surgeons that disobey God and open people while all they have to do is to read 2eye min el enjil or quran

LOL move to sudan...
Do me a favor then if you see anyone with my last name refer them to a real doctor just kidding

Originally Posted by abousoun

Thank You ...

Ahlen