Did I freelly start this thread?

[Kain]

Originally Posted by SysTaMatIcS

wait , i have to go to the bathroom , but to prove to u that i have a freee will, im gonna do it here

So you're compelled to do it right where you are to prove it to him
There's no escaping his arguments that's because he thinks interests and being compelled to do something don't classify within having free will


edit: he doesn't think he's compelled to follow this type of reasoning

[Kain]

When you think about what to do and actually do it it's called making a choice....not being driven to do so

[mr_j]

damn he read me like a map
this is never going to end
to be free is to be completly at ease with whatever options you have
you also missed the example where I asked you if you can shoot your sister
obstacles are more than just material stuff that you can see and feel
example:
am I free not to go to the university tomorrow? the apparent answer would be yes I can do that, just don't set the alarm clock, just keep sleeping till you miss the bus
that simple

but you know well that I would never do that, I can never do that, because on my scale of interests, I care about the tuition fees I paid and the future I have in mind more than spending an extra day home. it just works like that, best interest decisions, the temptation/threat equation

religion works like that
how people came so convinced with religion? be good you go to heaven, be bad you go to hell
let me go a bit to the edge here, if God sent a messenger today, and that messenger came out on TV and said"hence forward everyone who dies is going to hell, sorry we love you as always, but we just ran out of room in heaven " don't tell me this could never happen just focus on the idea.
if that happened, how many people will still worship the same as always?


decisions simply work by best interests
I can alter your decisions by putting more interests for you on the opposite side

what you define as best interest is not your choice, it's your nature and depends on your accident of birth. girls/boys rich/poor etc...

edit: about the thinking, this is how you measure what is your best interest
do I study or do I keep arguing kain
I will show you how this is going in my mind right now

arguing kain:
I don't feel like studying(5 points)
I don't want kain to win the argument(3 points)
delaying the response might seem like I have nothing to say(10 points)

studying:

my organic exam is 30% of my grade (5 points)
I know nothing about the material(5 points)
the course costs 1200 $ (5 points)

this is what I thought about and came out with the decision of arguing kain

now my decision would have been changed only if some reason on the above was added or substracted

so if u have 2 choices and , and u went to the other cuz u think its better, tht means u have no free will .
wait , i have to go to the bathroom , but to prove to u that i have a freee will, im gonna do it here

proving me wrong is now added to your interests
but would you have done that if the argument did not start
would you have woke up one day saying "I will not enter the toilet today, heyk because I choose not to? "

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by mr_j

damn he read me like a map
this is never going to end
to be free is to be completly at ease with whatever options you have
you also missed the example where I asked you if you can shoot your sister
obstacles are more than just material stuff that you can see and feel
example:
am I free not to go to the university tomorrow? the apparent answer would be yes I can do that, just don't set the alarm clock, just keep sleeping till you miss the bus
that simple

but you know well that I would never do that, I can never do that, because on my scale of interests, I care about the tuition fees I paid and the future I have in mind more than spending an extra day home. it just works like that, best interest decisions, the temptation/threat equation

religion works like that
how people came so convinced with religion? be good you go to heaven, be bad you go to hell
let me go a bit to the edge here, if God sent a messenger today, and that messenger came out on TV and said"hence forward everyone who dies is going to hell, sorry we love you as always, but we just ran out of room in heaven " don't tell me this could never happen just focus on the idea.
if that happened, how many people will still worship the same as always?


decisions simply work by best interests
I can alter your decisions by putting more interests for you on the opposite side

what you define as best interest is not your choice, it's your nature and depends on your accident of birth. girls/boys rich/poor etc...

edit: about the thinking, this is how you measure what is your best interest
do I study or do I keep arguing kain
I will show you how this is going in my mind right now

arguing kain:
I don't feel like studying(5 points)
I don't want kain to win the argument(3 points)
delaying the response might seem like I have nothing to say(10 points)

studying:

my organic exam is 30% of my grade (5 points)
I know nothing about the material(5 points)
the course costs 1200 $ (5 points)

this is what I thought about and came out with the decision of arguing kain

now my decision would have been changed only if some reason on the above was added or substracted

i just did it on my chair , and i have pix if u want , did i prove to u that i have a free will?

[Kain]

Originally Posted by mr_j

damn he read me like a map
this is never going to end
to be free is to be completly at ease with whatever options you have

That doesn't apply to all cases

Originally Posted by mr_j

you also missed the example where I asked you if you can shoot your sister

Leave my sister alone

Originally Posted by mr_j

obstacles are more than just material stuff that you can see and feel
example:
am I free not to go to the university tomorrow? the apparent answer would be yes I can do that,

Yes you are

Originally Posted by mr_j

just don't set the alarm clock, just keep sleeping till you miss the bus
that simple

Or you can just not go to class

Originally Posted by mr_j

but you know well that I would never do that, I can never do that, because on my scale of interests, I care about the tuition fees I paid and the future I have in mind more than spending an extra day home. it just works like that, best interest decisions, the temptation/threat equation
religion works like that

you can...bas you would not
it's different
Can does not = Would

Originally Posted by mr_j

how people came so convinced with religion? be good you go to heaven, be bad you go to hell

I can give you a perfect example...deAtheganized
He can tell you his story better than i can ( not that you don't already know it)

Originally Posted by mr_j

let me go a bit to the edge here, if God sent a messenger today, and that messenger came out on TV and said"hence forward everyone who dies is going to hell, sorry we love you as always, but we just ran out of room in heaven " don't tell me this could never happen just focus on the idea.
if that happened, how many people will still worship the same as always?

But if it could never happen this doesn't apply as an example or even a logical argument....because IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN.
You're taking the exact opposite of something that is true and that everyone knows is true and basing your argument on something that is therefore false.
If it can never happen than it can't and you can't tell us to debate on the fact that it MIGHT happen because it WON'T...because reality DOES NOT work that way!!

Originally Posted by mr_j

decisions simply work by best interests
I can alter your decisions by putting more interests for you on the opposite side

We don't always choose what's in our best interest
Decisions mean that there is a free will or a choice in the process...if there is a choice then i am FREE to choose whatever i want to choose.

Originally Posted by mr_j

what you define as best interest is not your choice, it's your nature and depends on your accident of birth. girls/boys rich/poor etc...

and it also depends on the decisions you've made in life

You...a believer in God...and heaven and hell...say that there is no free will..well then your view is messed up.
no free will= no heaven and hell because God is just
no heaven and hell = inequality...the murderer would get away with his crime and good deeds would go unrewarded
Unless God is inequal...then he is imperfect...but You sir believe that God is perfect....so explain that would you?

[mr_j]

I placed it in the edit
you did that to prove me wrong
proving me wrong at that point was more important than not messing up the floor

[Kain]

Originally Posted by SysTaMatIcS

i just did it on my chair , and i have pix if u want , did i prove to u that i have a free will?

Not to him...but you proved to me that your chair should be thrown out or cleaned with acid

[mr_j]

lets leave God out of it otherwise it will just grow bigger

But if it could never happen this doesn't apply as an example or even a logical argument....because IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN.

I said suppose
suppose
why wouldn't it never happen?
God can do anything right? and I doubt you could predict him
anyway lets let the God thing out of it

you can...bas you would not
it's different
Can does not = Would

no I can't
this is what this subject is all about
I am trying to prove to you that some of the apparent decisions you think you can do, are not actualy there
you can also choose to throw yourself out the balcony this second kamen right?
you simply can't do it, it's not an option

[Kain]

Originally Posted by mr_j

I placed it in the edit
you did that to prove me wrong
proving me wrong at that point was more important than not messing up the floor

Having an interest in something more than the other doesn't mean you don't have free will...it's the other way around...it's a key part of making a choice...

[Kain]

Originally Posted by mr_j

no I can't
this is what this subject is all about
I am trying to prove to you that some of the apparent decisions you think you can do, are not actualy there
you can also choose to throw yourself out the balcony this second kamen right?
you simply can't do it, it's not an option

Ability: The quality of being able to do something, especially the physical, mental, financial, or legal power to accomplish something.

Capability: A talent or ability that has potential for development or use.

Shooting my sister
I am able to do that...
I physically CAN pick up a gun...CAN pull the trigger and CAN shoot my sweet sister

But i WOULD not because i love my sister.

WOULD anyone with a degree in english help us here?