Damn, We are so small!

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by mr_j

which is easier to believe?
1) a God existed for an eternity of time and just one day decided to create these billions of planets without any meaning or purpose and he kicked adam out of heaven because he ate a dumb apple and sent satan to an eternity in hell because he refused a dumb order (to bow in front of adam) and in some magical illogical way, he saved humanity by having jesus crucified(I mean what is the link here between the apple and the cross) and he wants people to love him and follow him but he refuses to show himself to people instead he leaves us with books that are centuries old each book contradicting and refuting the other, uncertain of who wrote them and under what conditions and how honest was the writer.

2) a big chunk of energy and particles existed and eventualy exploded, probability of life as we know it despite being infinetly low and almost inexistent, it became a reality because of the infinite number of galaxies and planets

Option 1 ,
then wat do you have to lose?? believe in god , if he dznt exist , u wont gain anything , if he does exist , you will! theres a probability that he exists , so take the chance.

[Los Blancos]

Originally Posted by mr_j

a theory is a reality, there is noting called crap theory
the big bang happened and evolution happened

a theory is called theory because you can't actual see it happen
example of a theory: the theory of gravity
no one actualy saw an object fall down until it reached the center of the earth, this is why it is called theory, but that doesn't mean that we are not all atracted to the center of the earth

the theory of relativity, no one actualy saw a mass turn into energy, but that doesn't mean that it does not happen

the problem between religion and science is mainly the belief in probability and chance. religion does not believe in chance

example on chance: 950 people die each year from tafic accidents in lebanon, and each year we have 1000 deadly accident(the numbers are from my head) now in this example, 50 people have a deadly accident and they live(5% of the statistics) now if someone we both know has an accident and lives, you as a religious man are going to say" l7amdella alla najjek" God has chosen to let him live, while I will say he is one of the lucky 5 %

earth is one out of trillions and trillions of planets, if the chance of life existing was 0.0000000000000000000000001% then our existence could be simply chance

edit: about the fear of hell and wanting heaven thingy

of course it is the reason people believe in God, you might not realise it but it's true

you love your father at home, and you love your brother yet you reserve the right to disagree with them on some occasions, you might disobey your father if he asks you to bring him his shoes and you might disobey him if he asks you not to use the phone because you believe that wat he asks does not suit you and does not make sense

but when it comes to God that you cannot see or feel, no matter how absurd the demands are(no sex outside of marriage, why? no one gets hurt if I have sex with my girlfriend! ) church every sunday(spend an hour a week for the rest of your life repeating the same exact stuff that people have been repeating for...2000 years, same for muslims on fridays) fast for 40 days every day(although it is bad for the health)

but you wouldn't disagree, that's not love, that's slavery, and it's not normal, you're expecting something out of it

A theory is something people think could have happened, because they do not know for sure what happened, it's not reality. There are many theories on how the world started, all of them are true ?

Relegion is one entity, and Science is another. Science can't explain Relegion. It's up to you to think what you want to think, and do what you want to do, and you'll be subject to your actions in the end. This life is nothing but a test, you choose to either live it the good way, or the bad way.

LoL the last person you see saying "2alla Najjek" would be me man. I don't beleive in such stuff. I beleive when it's your time to go you just go, and if you've lived a good, honest life, you have nothing to be worried about. If you live on after an accident, you're lucky.

Now you want to tell me life on earth (besides their being the probability of extraterrestrial life) is all by chance, huh ?

Well, fear of hell is not a main reason why we beleive in God, but it's always good to respect and not defy your creator, don't you think ? You don't go into work and curse your boss and expect to get promoted.

You're going into relegion here. You know you can beleive in God, and not follow any relegion. Just beleive in God, and do good things in life. I'm not telling you to be obsessed by it, but you don't have to be a killer just to prove you don't beleive in God.

As for Ramadan (for Muslims), is it bad to fast for a month in order to be modest and feel the pain our fellow poor people feel every day ? They can't even afford to drink clean water, it's nice to feel with them once in a while.

I don't pray, I don't go to the Mosque, but I beleive in an entity called God, which created us, and this whole universe .

[Los Blancos]

Originally Posted by Tawa

What Kind Of Religious Bullsh** Is That?

Why Should You Be In BIG Trouble If God Loves You In The First Place?
Isn't This What They Taught You While You Were Young? That God Loves Us All Equally?
They Didn't Raise You To Fear God, And The BIG Trouble You Might Get If You Don't Believe In Him, Did They?

Anyways, What You Mentioned Is Today Known As Pascal's Wager.

You Don't Have To Believe In God To Go To Heaven, If What Religions Says Is True.
If There's A God, And You Live A Peaceful Life, Without Hurting Other People And Doing Bad Things I Think He Might Let You Get Into Heaven.

I Can't Help It But To Quote George Carlin:
You Can Watch It Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWjs3diATjQ


Of Course There's A Creator, Nothing Exists Without A Creator.
But The Creator Of Our Universe In My Opinion Is Not The God That Religions Made Us Believe In.

If you read my whole post, I said that this is not why you should beleive in God, but I'm talking in the same wave he's talking in.

Now where in Relegion did you see a statement that you don't have to beleive in God to go to heaven ? Man, if you don't beleive in God, you're not going to do any good deed in life, it's like you've been told come on go wild, no one's watching.

Well, you said it in your last sentence. You beleive in God. It doesn't have to be the God Muslims speak of, or Cristians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus, in the end the same God created us.

[mr_j]

A theory is something people think could have happened, because they do not know for sure what happened, it's not reality. There are many theories on how the world started, all of them are true ?

something that is not proven is called a scientific hypothesis, a theory is when something is proven
a theory is that if I throw the apple from the balcony, it's going to fall on the street, are there any chances that I will throw the apple and it will fly up instead?

a hypothesis is saying I will throw the apple down, and it will bounce on the street and hit a kid in the head

As for Ramadan (for Muslims), is it bad to fast for a month in order to be modest and feel the pain our fellow poor people feel every day ? They can't even afford to drink clean water, it's nice to feel with them once in a while.

it is bad for the health, you truly want to sacrifice you can stop eating chocolat, going to the movies and do community work that's my logic, if I bang my head on the wall to feel pain, it wouldn't exactly feed any hungry people

Well, fear of hell is not a main reason why we beleive in God, but it's always good to respect and not defy your creator, don't you think ? You don't go into work and curse your boss and expect to get promoted.

You're going into relegion here. You know you can beleive in God, and not follow any relegion. Just beleive in God, and do good things in life. I'm not telling you to be obsessed by it, but you don't have to be a killer just to prove you don't beleive in God.

I know it is good to respect a creator outside the idea of heaven and hell, and I know you don't need a religion to believe in God, my obection is against the current forms of religion and this definition of God. I am not against the idea of a God existing, as I said before no one can say there is no God, I am just against these stories of religions and this system of organised worshiping. If a God exists, he should respect our free will and reason and he must trust us to be able to make our own choices of whether we want to help the poor or not, whether we want to be honest or not and how our legal system is going to be formed

I believe in human laws to be the best laws to ensure the well being and most happiness to people on earth, our laws say you may not kill, you may not steal or rape and you should pay taxes

the reason why sex outside marriage and liying and being rich(it's a crime for a christian to be rich) and refusing to help the poor is not included in the constitution, is because there is no harm to society or great harm to other people if you do these things

in religion, stuff like that can deny you from eternal rest
religion speaks to people about eternity, when you are teaching people to pray and not to commit bad deeds, you're speaking to them about heaven and hell, this is the biggest punishment/reward system that can ever exist
you're not threatning to execute people who do not obey you, you're threatning with far far greater punishment...eternity this is why most people will not try and question God or his orders and how logical and good they are, and they will do their best to convince themselves that they love God more than anything and would do anything for him, out of self interest.

I do believe by the way that the only person you love in life is yourself, and your love to others is out of love or yourself. you love your father because he treats you well, if that man (who is your father ) happened to be your neighbor in an alternae life, you would not have loved him. you love your friend because you have fun together but if your friend hurts you very deeply, you might turn to hate him, the only love constant in the universe is self love, all other love is just a reaction to feelings of self benefit

Man, if you don't beleive in God, you're not going to do any good deed in life, it's like you've been told come on go wild, no one's watching.

you don't have to believe in God to do a good deed, and if you do a good deed because you believe in God, then you are doing it out of selfishness because deep down, you want him to see you do it

but if you don't believe but you still give sacrifices, that makes you truly a good person, because you understand that there is a great risk that your deed will go unoticed, and yet you chose to do it

I don't drink alcohol or smoke and I never told a lie in my life, and evenif my life depends on it I would never tell a lie in my life. I don't believe in a God that tells me to do so, but I believe that my self respect and to be able to command ther people's respect, I must do so

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mr_j

If a God exists, he should respect our free will and reason and he must trust us to be able to make our own choices of whether we want to help the poor or not, whether we want to be honest or not and how our legal system is going to be formed

But see here, you regard God as a normal human being bound by emotions that we feel. Hate, trust, respect, happiness etc. are emotions which God would be unbound of, therefore you can't demand trust or respect because they are human emotions.

Originally Posted by mr_j

I believe in human laws to be the best laws to ensure the well being and most happiness to people on earth, our laws say you may not kill, you may not steal or rape and you should pay taxes

Human laws never have or will provide justice, order or peace. I believe all people deep down are hypocrites (include myself), thats why society will never be a utopia.

Originally Posted by mr_j

the reason why sex outside marriage and liying and being rich(it's a crime for a christian to be rich) and refusing to help the poor is not included in the constitution, is because there is no harm to society or great harm to other people if you do these things

My issue with how religion is practised is that it's seen as rules instead of guidelines. All those things you mention do bring plenty of harm to society.
Sex can get people to do a lot of stupid things.
Lying is definitely the direct or indirect cause of every war that has ever been fought in human history. Not to mention that it's one of the main sources of corruption.
Money is also one of the main sources of corruption.

I don't believe religion is against things like sex and money, but that it warns us from them. I've known guys who turned their lives upside down because of girl they liked and others who have gone from being decent people to thieves because of money.
I believe the intent of religion is mostly to set up guidelines not rules. But the problem with religion is that it is people who will interpret these guidelines as they see fit and then pass them on as rules. That's why I believe that everybody should develop their own philosophy rather than learn it.

[mr_j]

Human laws never have or will provide justice, order or peace. I believe all people deep down are hypocrites (include myself), thats why society will never be a utopia.

and the religious laws will make it all better?
laws restrict free will, when you make a death penalty for murder, and murder stops happening, it is because everytime a person thinks about killing another,he will remember that this will lead to his execution, and therefore he won't do it, for man to truly be able to be free, laws should be as strict and as few as possible

religion is adding more laws

Lying is definitely the direct or indirect cause of every war that has ever been fought in human history. Not to mention that it's one of the main sources of corruption.
Money is also one of the main sources of corruption.

I don't believe religion is against things like sex and money, but that it warns us from them. I've known guys who turned their lives upside down because of girl they liked and others who have gone from being decent people to thieves because of money.

I don' know which religion you follow, personnaly I was raised christian, jesus said "انّه لاسهل ادخال جمل في ثقب ابرة على ان يدخل ثري ملكوت السماء" and to answer this

you regard God as a normal human being bound by emotions that we feel. Hate, trust, respect, happiness etc. are emotions which God would be unbound of

it is written الله خلق الانسان على صورته ومثاله
furthermore, the idea of God and "the kingdome of heaven" is a projection of a real system of monarchy that exists among men, where there is a king and he has servants that must obey him

being respected is something that humans want, it is why we fought against slavery, religious freedome and freedom of discrimination
as a person that likes to be respected I refuse to be given a set of orders to follow as a slave

My issue with how religion is practised is that it's seen as rules instead of guidelines. All those things you mention do bring plenty of harm to society.
Sex can get people to do a lot of stupid things.
Lying is definitely the direct or indirect cause of every war that has ever been fought in human history. Not to mention that it's one of the main sources of corruption.
Money is also one of the main sources of corruption.

I accept religion's opinion, but I wish they were opinions, they are laws

and what you are saying here is like "many people die of car accidents each year, lets ban driving"

when someone gets drunk and shoots someone, catch him and punish him for murder, when someone lies and it might lead to a war, punish people for the war
bas mich because there is a 1% chance that it might laken we ban it completly

I believe the intent of religion is mostly to set up guidelines not rules. But the problem with religion is that it is people who will interpret these guidelines as they see fit and then pass them on as rules. That's why I believe that everybody should develop their own philosophy rather than learn it.

I believe that too

anyway I am not saying God does not exist, I am saying it's a 50/50 chance and that no religion so far has convinced me that this is how a God would behave

[Tawa]

Originally Posted by SysTaMatIcS

Option 1 ,
then wat do you have to lose?? believe in god , if he dznt exist , u wont gain anything , if he does exist , you will! theres a probability that he exists , so take the chance.

This Is Also Stupid, A Belief Should Come From Deep Inside, You Can't Just Create It. LoL

What You're Saying Is Somehow Logical, The Only Difference Is That I Think It's Stupid And I Can't Believe In God

I Would Like To Quote George Carlin Again:

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is f#cked up.

Originally Posted by Los Blancos

Now where in Relegion did you see a statement that you don't have to beleive in God to go to heaven ? Man, if you don't beleive in God, you're not going to do any good deed in life, it's like you've been told come on go wild, no one's watching.

Well, you said it in your last sentence. You beleive in God. It doesn't have to be the God Muslims speak of, or Cristians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus, in the end the same God created us.

Actually, Religions Told You That God Loves You, And He Is Somehow Fair Among His People.

You Tell Me Why Would He Send Me To Hell If I Lived A Peacefull Life, And Never Hurt Ayone, Never Stole Something, Never Killed Anyone, And All Those Things That Are Defined As Bad In Religions?
~ I Live And Let Live ~

And By The Way, Your God{Whether You Are Christian Or Muslim} Is Different From Jews' God

[H@SSàN]

سبحان الله
عميت عين لا تراك