Wearing veil "7jeib"

[xcoder]

That's the problem in fact, you talk about freedom and not forcing anyone to do it then you talk about marja3 which is the man and we enter into the sexism game where men decide and you follow.

Islam as a religion does make women second class and please don't tell me you need a proof on this one, when was the last time a woman told her husband "talek" or had the "right" to marry others? Do you inherit equal shares as your brothers?

Stop being brain washed by some religious slogans that convinced you being the house keeper and belonging to the male model. You are a free person by nature and have the same rights as a man you just gave them away because you were taught this way, i personally don't blame you because you accepted it, but i would if you don't work on changing it.

Back to the veil,
as for the thread >> http://forum.vcoderz.com/ur-hair-t9683/index3.html << the thread is about hair, what are you trying to prove? open a thread about the eyes and you will get similar results, then go wear a "nikab" since your eyes are counted attractive to men, ow wait you need to cover your eyes too!

Why men don't wear the veil? not because woman don't get attracted to them (LOL) but because they are the privileged genre and you are another belonging to them.
They are the smart who know everything and you are the dummy, that's the only explanation for such subject.

Islam has a big portion about sex and all given to the males, this is how things are. they made you believe that it's so unappropriated to show your hair but it's just fine your man marry another woman. I don't know how they did it, i can't but admit its success.

Don't feel lonely this is not only the case with Islam, most of religion turned woman into items for men, Islam is heading the list though.

I really don't expect you to understand this so fast, just think that you deserve to live a decent life where you decide every detail in it. I would have totally accepted your life style and choices if you had the choice. Unfortunately you don't and that's what i am against.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by xcoder

That's the problem in fact, you talk about freedom and not forcing anyone to do it then you talk about marja3 which is the man and we enter into the sexism game where men decide and you follow.

No the problem is that you've pre-judged islam when you didn't know the first clue about the differences between one sect and another in ideology or understanding of the world.

The marja3 is a man. Partly because such high religious studies are male dominated. That does not mean that a "shaykha" does not exist. So quit with the sexism game you're overdoing it. If a female had what it took to be a marja3 i have no doubt that she will have followers in all sorts of countries but you just don't see women that go that far.

Following your logic i would say that engineers worldwide are sexists because engineering is a male dominated profession.

Originally Posted by xcoder

Islam as a religion does make women second class and please don't tell me you need a proof on this one, when was the last time a woman told her husband "talek" or had the "right" to marry others? Do you inherit equal shares as your brothers?

1-Yes she does have the right to divorce him as long as the reason is valid...they also have to sit down with representatives of both sides and a sheikh to discuss any possible agreement before actually divorcing...the same goes for the man who also needs a valid reason...on top of that if he divorces her she gets whatever money was agreed upon in the pre-nuptual agreement
Meaning that if 500 000$ was agreed upon in case of a divorce she gets every penny of it w law ken m3attar l makhlou2

edit: he has no right to demand money in the pre-nup..he can get nothing out of the divorce...ya3ne ydabbir raso.

2- As far as inheritance goes l mara ma 3enda masroof metl l rejjel. The man is supposed to care for her and it is his responsibility to provide for her. If he inherits anything it is his responsibility to spend it on his family. If the woman however inherits anything she can keep it for herself and is not obligated to spend it on her husband.

Originally Posted by xcoder

Stop being brain washed by some religious slogans that convinced you being the house keeper and belonging to the male model.

teslamle ya mnawwar enta
So because she's religious she's reduced to a housekeeper belonging to the male model?

bel nesbe lal brain washing jeyeek bel 7adees

Originally Posted by xcoder

You are a free person by nature and have the same rights as a man you just gave them away because you were taught this way, i personally don't blame you because you accepted it, but i would if you don't work on changing it.

What you don't know about black_ice is that she...as many others have...was convinced that this was the right path for her.
She only recently wore the veil. Her father is a communist and her mother is not veiled. And as she told you her family don't approve of what she does but this is her conviction.

Read what she has already said and stop talking based on the stereotype you fixed in that enlightened brain of yours.

Edit: ktir wadi7 enna brainwashed.

Originally Posted by xcoder

Back to the veil,
as for the thread >> http://forum.vcoderz.com/ur-hair-t9683/index3.html << the thread is about hair, what are you trying to prove? open a thread about the eyes and you will get similar results, then go wear a "nikab" since your eyes are counted attractive to men, ow wait you need to cover your eyes too!

As black_ice said it is an option. If the person's eyes are that sexually appealing then yes in my opinion they should also be covered up

Originally Posted by xcoder

Why men don't wear the veil? not because woman don't get attracted to them (LOL) but because they are the privileged genre and you are another belonging to them.

They are also expected to wear certain clothes that hide all that can be sexually attractive.
Hay telit marra men2oola. Ma 7a n3ida. Get a clue.

Originally Posted by xcoder

They are the smart who know everything and you are the dummy, that's the only explanation for such subject.

that's your explanation. which is completely distant from the reality of things.
do you really hate religions that blindly?

Originally Posted by xcoder

Islam has a big portion about sex and all given to the males, this is how things are. they made you believe that it's so unappropriated to show your hair but it's just fine your man marry another woman. I don't know how they did it, i can't but admit its success.

1- the male libido is quite different than the woman's. They are much more dependant on sex than women are, men are naturally promiscuous. Women are more prone to get attached to one man. That doesn't mean that men can't live without a single woman. In fact it's much better and preferred to marry one woman.

2- He can only marry another if he is just to his wife. Also in my opinion, you can't be just to your wife if she doesn't accept the fact that you marry another woman.

3- women are increasing in numbers much more than men. Needless to say the number of women forced to lead celibate lives would decrease

Originally Posted by xcoder

Don't feel lonely this is not only the case with Islam, most of religion turned woman into items for men, Islam is heading the list though.

Edit: 1- La2 b3eed l sharr women aren't considered as sexual items for men in commercials nowadays. Are you really that blind?? this is all about reducing women from being items. if anything islam is the religion that glorifies women the most.

2-Thank you for your comfort don't let the door hit you on the way out

Originally Posted by xcoder

I really don't expect you to understand this so fast,

yes black_ice...you're just a little kid...listen to uncle xcoder now he knows best...

Originally Posted by xcoder

just think that you deserve to live a decent life where you decide every detail in it.

YES break free from the shackles of religious practices

i want you to liiiiiiiveeeee

Originally Posted by xcoder

I would have totally accepted your life style and choices if you had the choice. Unfortunately you don't and that's what i am against.

no choice eh eh hay hiyye
ma la2et ghayra hiyye la t2ella hek

[xcoder]

Hehehe, incredible reply and no need to go further.

so black_ice, Kain said here that women are too many and 7aram t3anso so he has to right to marry many, how generous!

He believes you don't spend as much as men so you don't have the right to inherit as much as he does, maybe your salaries should be divided by 2 (of course if Kain approves that women are allowed to work).
Of course a house keeper doesn't need as much

Since eyes could be appealing then you have to cover them, yet men hair and eyes aren't attractive to women, he said so, shou 3arafna, he knows better. :sick:

...

After all that you keep talking about equality between man and woman.
I don't know what "equality" standards you're using but my standards are totally different, have a look: Woman are equal to men in rights and duties, no one has the right to label anyone else according to his sex, beliefs or race.

Needless to say, don't ask me for more proofs, the "shar3e" male model replied and described you as an extension of his, what do you need more?

Finally, i am glad humanity is leaving these mid-ages mentalities otherwise we would have been riding horses and camels.

And btw, black_ice don't shake Kain's hand, that could get him excited :P

[Kain]

Originally Posted by xcoder

Hehehe, incredible reply and no need to go further.

Why thank you khajjaletne

Originally Posted by xcoder

so black_ice,

ntebhe mnee7 he's adressing you

Originally Posted by xcoder

Kain said here that women are too many and 7aram t3anso so he has to right to marry many, how generous!

I said that it would be logical since men are naturally promiscuous and the number of women exceeds the number of men.
I also said that l sharet la ye2dar yetjawwaz aktar men wa7de houwe eno ye3dol ma3o kellon and my personal belief is that ma fi ye3dol ma3 marto if she doesn't agree that he marries another.
Eza hiyye 2ablene enta bi kell basata ma elak ma3 sameha because that was her choice
If that was forced upon her 60 3omro ma yerja3

You're good at distorting what i said i have to admit that.

Originally Posted by xcoder

He believes you don't spend as much as men so you don't have the right to inherit as much as he does, maybe your salaries should be divided by 2 .

it's not about spending as it is about responsibilities.
Men have a responsibility towards their families and are the ones expected to spend on their wives and children.
Which is why their share of inheritence is larger.
If the woman is a widow then she gets a share and so do her children

That's pretty logical. Ma baddak te2teni3 ana ekher hamme.

Originally Posted by xcoder

(of course if Kain approves that women are allowed to work)

oh how precious sarcasm
Of course i allow women to work

But at least i wouldn't accept it if my wife or sister or close friend became a sexual appeal to other men because of the way she dresses or acts.
At least i offer her respect as a true woman and human being and do not consider her as a pair of walking breasts that talk

Originally Posted by xcoder

Of course a house keeper doesn't need as much

ntebhe mnee7 black_ice...a wink means that he thought he said something important

Originally Posted by xcoder

Since eyes could be appealing then you have to cover them,

No i said that if a certain woman's eyes are appealing enough to arouse sexual desires then yes they should be covered up

Originally Posted by xcoder

yet men hair and eyes aren't attractive to women,

because men's eyes and hair don't arouse sexual desires

Originally Posted by xcoder

he said so, shou 3arafna, he knows better.

eh tab3an lesh enta shou bi3arrfak?

Originally Posted by xcoder

:sick:

Supplin 500mg 7abbe ba3d l akel marrten bel yom w byemshe 7alak.

...

Originally Posted by xcoder

After all that you keep talking about equality between man and woman.
I don't know what "equality" standards you're using but my standards are totally different, have a look: Woman are equal to men in rights and duties, no one has the right to label anyone else according to his sex, beliefs or race.

you talk about equality when women are used as sexual objects and u dare talk about women's rights.
Get a grip and get a clue.

Originally Posted by xcoder

Needless to say, don't ask me for more proofs,

you gave proof? you even had to distort what i had to say to prove your point this is by no means considered as "proof"

Originally Posted by xcoder

the "shar3e" male model replied
and described you as an extension of his, what do you need more?

yes of course black_ice...if you think the way i do you will become a black ninja and that scares the hell out of xcoder because ninjas are evil.

Originally Posted by xcoder

Finally, i am glad humanity is leaving these mid-ages mentalities otherwise we would have been riding horses and camels.

3a slemta ur mentality which preaches for equality between men and women...eh raked

Originally Posted by xcoder

And btw, black_ice don't shake Kain's hand, that could get him excited :P

oh ah joke how quaint
black_ice you should use your body to get your way in life. Go to the beach...have a fun time shou fiha law bayyante jesmik kello kezeb hal 7ake lli btesma3i 3an enticing sexual desires


follow xcoder's logic and you will see that l benet lli mesh far2ane ma3a l deneh w mesh me7terme 7ala aw karameta is what he considers to be a man's equal

Sarit l benet lli metsattra 3am yen7aka 3layha la2an metsattra? tfeh 3a hek zaman.

[The Cheese]

Originally Posted by xcoder

so black_ice, Kain said here that women are too many and 7aram t3anso so he has to right to marry many, how generous!

Actually he said

Originally Posted by Kain

He can only marry another if he is just to his wife. Also in my opinion, you can't be just to your wife if she doesn't accept the fact that you marry another woman.

Originally Posted by xcoder

He believes you don't spend as much as men so you don't have the right to inherit as much as he does, maybe your salaries should be divided by 2 (of course if Kain approves that women are allowed to work).
Of course a house keeper doesn't need as much

Again he said

Originally Posted by Kain

The man is supposed to care for her and it is his responsibility to provide for her. If he inherits anything it is his responsibility to spend it on his family. If the woman however inherits anything she can keep it for herself and is not obligated to spend it on her husband.

And stop with the housekeeper example already if anyone's promoting for sexism and prejudice opinions it's you.

Originally Posted by xcoder

:sick:

Eaten something bad today,have you ?
Wlik salemtak

Originally Posted by xcoder

described you as an extension of his

How did you get that impression exactly ?

Originally Posted by xcoder

I don't know what "equality" standards you're using but my standards are totally different

I think your standards of "equality" only apply if you approve and like what the other person is doing.If you don't approve it becomes brainwashing
Interestingly enough,you don't see kain hopping behind girls that are not veiled trying to shove a plastic bag through their head to cover their hair
Learning about all sorts of opinions and beliefs is never bad as long as you really learn and you don't go around cherry-picking things for your convenience.And For the love of whatever you consider sacred ,if you insist on preaching about about freedom and how sexism is bad stop with your examples on brainwashing and how every veiled girl is a belonging to the "male model".That would really help your case

[mr_j]

you talk about equality when women are used as sexual objects and u dare talk about women's rights.
Get a grip and get a clue.

why do you assume kain that women are used as sexual objects?
if she is raped, then she is treated as an object
if she willingly sleeps with a guy, then they are both objects of pleasure for each other :P
and again I ask why do you think thoughts and emotions should be controled and restricted? no one ever got hurt from someone else's thoughts, imagination or anything. if a guy disrespects a woman verbaly, 5la3lo ni3o, I'll help you , if he doesn't, it's not our job to see what is going on inside his head and try to avoid it

[The Cheese]

Originally Posted by mr_j

why do you assume kain that women are used as sexual objects?
if she is raped, then she is treated as an object
if she willingly sleeps with a guy, then they are both objects of pleasure for each other :P
and again I ask why do you think thoughts and emotions should be controled and restricted? no one ever got hurt from someone else's thoughts, imagination or anything. if a guy disrespects a woman verbaly, 5la3lo ni3o, I'll help you , if he doesn't, it's not our job to see what is going on inside his head and try to avoid it

He isn't assuming
It's a fact these days and if anyone couldn't see that they don't get out much.
It's all over everywhere:Advertisements,pictures,magazines, videos.Everywhere
Women's bodies are being paraded around for purposes of advertising
If someone wants to sell a useless piece of junk,they have a good looking woman use it and people swarm around and buy it like their lives depended on it
Marketing's all about image.
She doesn't have to be raped to be considered an object.If she becomes just a thing that people sell for money,she is considered an object.Because people buy and sell objects
And yes,I as a girl, do find a guy having certain ideas and fantasies insulting and degrading,as should any girl,in fact anyone,with dignity as well.
Here are his thoughts on the matter

Originally Posted by Kain a long long time ago

It isn't restricting...it's controlling yourself and learning to control yourself to bring out most of your potential as a human being.
Your most important asset is your mind and that's what you should work on showing in society, not what's in ur pants.
One day you will understand what an "unrestricted" society is like, the social effects are of such a big scale that you will feel like you are living in a whole different world.
Impure Thoughts DO lead to actions by pressuring the person to pursue actions based on those impious thoughts. He might stop himself, only for a little while, but then everyone breaks under the pressure of constant unwavering thoughts.
If you act without thinking then it's pure instinct.
Pure thoughts keep you away from that kind of action.
By emphasizing the role of the mind you are creating a society where such actions do not, or rarely occur.

[mr_j]

Originally Posted by Black_ice

He isn't assuming
It's a fact these days and if anyone couldn't see that they don't get out much.
It's all over everywhere:Advertisements,pictures,magazines, videos.Everywhere
Women's bodies are being paraded around for purposes of advertising
If someone wants to sell a useless piece of junk,they have a good looking woman use it and people swarm around and buy it like their lives depended on it
Marketing's all about image.
She doesn't have to be raped to be considered an object.If she becomes just a thing that people sell for money,she is considered an object.Because people buy and sell objects
And yes,I as a girl, do find a guy having certain ideas and fantasies insulting and degrading,as should any girl,in fact anyone,with dignity as well.
Here are his thoughts on the matter

women are paid to be on these advertisements, they go there willingly, it's not like she was captured and sold and traded

what you don't know won't bother you
somewhere someone I know could have been thinking how much of an idiot I am, and how he would like to kill me, and chop off my head and display it in his house, and then burn my house down with my family in it next day when I see him, he smiles at me and says hi
I didn't know what was in his head, he didn't act on it, do I have something to object on?
first of all I did not know of his thoughts, therefore I was not hurt
second, assuming I did, he really did not take anything from me...

Impure Thoughts DO lead to actions by pressuring the person to pursue actions based on those impious thoughts. He might stop himself, only for a little while, but then everyone breaks under the pressure of constant unwavering thoughts.

pressure does not come from thinking freely, it comes from resisting your instincts 24/7
I used to be a devoted christian, I always felt the need to have my mind "clean" no hatred, no sexual desires, no evil thoughts. that was the pressure, to think that God was reading my mind, that thoughts will make me evil

but then I learned to free my mind, that at least, when all my actions have consequences and are visible to people to judge and critisize, I found that my mind is my only true release, the only thing that I can allow to go crazy without any monitering or fear of what goes in it, it feels great. my behavior was not altered in any way, but I feel more comfrotable with myself, there are no limits or things that my mind is denied entry to :P I understand that there is no such thing as an evil thought, only evil actions. a thought never hurt anyone, mostly because no one knows of its existence in your head except you

there is a long long way and a big big difference between thought and action
thoughts do not lead to action in most cases, especialy when it comes to bad thoughts, I wish thoughts lead to action, then everytime whe I think to myself that I am going to spend a weekend studying, I'd actualy find the determination and the courage to do it

[Adam]

@mr_j:

The purpose of restricting thought is to make sure that sex doesn't become the centre of your life, which is exactly what's happening to you. Have you noticed than in almost every serious discussion we have here, no matter what it is, you switch from the original subject to talk about how religion/society are evil because they put restrictions on sexuality.

In my religion, there isn't a mention of sex being a vice, but it has laws and boundaries that need to be respected so that you can control your thoughts rather than having them control you.

This isn't just a religious practice, many philosophies emphasise on the need to control thoughts and emotions. It isn't about religion controlling you, it's about you controlling yourself.

[mr_j]

eh sex is the center of my life
I have not seen a fellow human being in 6 month dude, the internet is the center of my life

the veil is all about sexuality, it's not me diverting the topic, I am going to the essence of the topic, at the original idea of the existence of the veil
it is to restrict the sexual desires
what is it for then?
fashion?

edit: well 3 month actualy, since uni ended
and my ideas about freing the mind did not only talk about sex, I was talking about everything that is considered forbidden, from hate to maybe doubting religion to anything that they tried to tell you to never try and think about or to avoid