Bashir Gemayel: Patriotic or Traitor ?!

[getryne]

Originally Posted by flamenguita

Systa, systa, Plz try tp understand the history we are talking about regarding the legacy of Sheikh Bachir. We never said that he didn't kill but killing innocent people, unharmed or who had nothing to do with the devastating situation in Lebanon, it can be turned wrong. Sheikh Bachir launched a war on the SSNP and all the parties who supported Syrian presence in Lebanon. He knew it will cause lives but he never turned his arms on innocent people, he saw in the palestinian presence here a danger and look what we are facing now becoz of them.

he saw in the syrian presence a danger and we paid a lot becoz of their sh**s and we are still paying tillnow.

He later saw in the israeili presence a threat and he tried to pull us out from their dirt but the SSNP DIDN'T LET HIM ACCOMPLISH THE 10452 km2 dream.

He is the patriotic and they are the traitors.

JUST REMEMBER SOME FACTS BEFORE SAYING WAT U SAID.... THE LEBANESE CIVIL WAR BEGAN AS A YASAR VS. YAMIN WAR, (2ISHTIRAKI-SHOUYOU3I-QAWMI- PALESTINIAN) AGAINST (KATA2IB-A7RAR......), LATER ON, WHEN THE SYRIANS ENTERED LEBANON TO DEFEND THE YAMIN, ANOTHER YASAR VS. SYRIA BATTLES BEGAN, DO U KNOW WAT KAMAL JUNBLAT SAID WHEN SYRIANS ENTERED LEBANON???? " 2INNA AKBAR KHATAR 3ALA LUBNAN HOUWA AL 7ELF AL 3ALAWI-AL MAROUNI)!!!! DO U KNOW WAT THE SHYOUKH L MASEJED IN SYRIA TOLD 7AFIZ AL ASSAD WHEN HE ENTERED LEBANON??? " WE ACCEPTED U AN ALLAWITE PRESIDENT RULING SYRIA, BT WE WON'T ACCEPT U A MARONITE PRESIDENT RULING SYRIA" ,,, SO MY FRIEND, HOW DID U FIND THAT SSNP WAS DEFENDING SYRIA, WHILE SYRIA ENTERED LEBANON TO DEFEND U( THE LEBANESE YAMIN) WHILE SSNP WAS HAVING BATTLES WITH SYRIAN ARMY( KOURA BATTLES 4 EXAMPLE), THE GAME RULES CHANGED LATER ON.... ISRAEL BECAME A MAJOR PLAYER IN THIS GAME(THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE BEFORE 1975, ISRAELI RELATION WITH KATA2IB ND LF WAS SINCE 1948, THEIR RELATION NEVER STOPPED, BT IT WAS OPTIMIZED DURING EARLY 1980s), SSNP KILLED BACHIR PROUDLY, THEY SAY THAT FO2 LSATE7, THEY SAY WE KILLED THE TRAITOR, AND THEY REALLY DID...............

[flamenguita]

Originally Posted by getryne

JUST REMEMBER SOME FACTS BEFORE SAYING WAT U SAID.... THE LEBANESE CIVIL WAR BEGAN AS A YASAR VS. YAMIN WAR, (2ISHTIRAKI-SHOUYOU3I-QAWMI- PALESTINIAN) AGAINST (KATA2IB-A7RAR......), LATER ON, WHEN THE SYRIANS ENTERED LEBANON TO DEFEND THE YAMIN, ANOTHER YASAR VS. SYRIA BATTLES BEGAN, DO U KNOW WAT KAMAL JUNBLAT SAID WHEN SYRIANS ENTERED LEBANON???? " 2INNA AKBAR KHATAR 3ALA LUBNAN HOUWA AL 7ELF AL 3ALAWI-AL MAROUNI)!!!! DO U KNOW WAT THE SHYOUKH L MASEJED IN SYRIA TOLD 7AFIZ AL ASSAD WHEN HE ENTERED LEBANON??? " WE ACCEPTED U AN ALLAWITE PRESIDENT RULING SYRIA, BT WE WON'T ACCEPT U A MARONITE PRESIDENT RULING SYRIA" ,,, SO MY FRIEND, HOW DID U FIND THAT SSNP WAS DEFENDING SYRIA, WHILE SYRIA ENTERED LEBANON TO DEFEND U( THE LEBANESE YAMIN) WHILE SSNP WAS HAVING BATTLES WITH SYRIAN ARMY( KOURA BATTLES 4 EXAMPLE), THE GAME RULES CHANGED LATER ON.... ISRAEL BECAME A MAJOR PLAYER IN THIS GAME(THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE BEFORE 1975, ISRAELI RELATION WITH KATA2IB ND LF WAS SINCE 1948, THEIR RELATION NEVER STOPPED, BT IT WAS OPTIMIZED DURING EARLY 1980s), SSNP KILLED BACHIR PROUDLY, THEY SAY THAT FO2 LSATE7, THEY SAY WE KILLED THE TRAITOR, AND THEY REALLY DID...............

Syria enetred Lebanon with the "excuse" of defending the maronites w ma ba3ref shou, i think the wars that they launched against us pretty clear that. What was from the seen is not half what is in the unseen and the premediated plans, SSNP was With Syria when they launched massive war against General Aoun and we can easily see how Assad Herdan tried to eliminate Aoun twice by assasinating him, so plz tell me here where the SSNP was "against " Syria in this? same as the Gemayel story, and under what rule Chartouny was freed, who really controled the country? what the syrians do to us christians during the war?

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

traitor...
treason....
are relative issues.
where was israel in 1975?
was bashir collaborating with israel in 1975?
so you are dealing here with causes and consequences.
look at it this way.
u had no reason to stand by the palestinian against your compatriot lebanese in 1975.
but........u did.
so you are a traitor by choice.

when bashir was cornered he seeked arms and training from israel.
so he is a traitor???...by lack of choices.
our idol khomeini was cornered during the IRAQ- IRAN war,
so he seeked arms, ammunition, spare parts and advice from israel.
so he is a hero????...by lack of choices?

nobody liked israel to be the assistant.
but whoever was left without options would have made the same choice.
a gun...a dagger....and a bottle of poison.
select what suites you and advise me.

where **** did u get this from??? any evidence?? or pure israeli - 14 march cheap propaganda??

Systa, refrain from using aggressive language!

[IBIN BATTOUTA]

Originally Posted by getryne

I WOULD ASK MR. ADMINISTRATOR TO DELETE IBN BATTOUTA'S LAST THREAD, BCZ IT CONTAINS WORDS WHICH ATTACK RELIGIOUS THOUGHTS 4 SOME PEOPLE. IN ALL CASES AM GONNA TELL U IBN BATTOUTA. AL MAHDI AL MONTAZAR IS A BELIEVE 4 ALL MUSLIMS INCLUDING SUNNA ND SHI3A, SO UR ATTACKING A RELIGIOUS SYMBOL.... AL MAHDI AL MONTAZAR IS THE "MOKHALLIS" WHICH MUSLIMS BELEIVE IN. "AL MASI7" IS THE "MUKHALLIS" WHICH CHRISTIANS BELEIVE IN. WAT IF BOTH OF THEM WAS ONE PERSON..... MUSLIMS SAY HE'S GONNA BE SHORT, CHRISTIANS SAY HE'S GONNA BE TALL. MUSLIMS SAY HE LIKES PIZZA, CHRISTIANS SAY HE LIKES PASTA, AT LAST HE WILL BE APPEAR..... ONLY ONE MOKHALLIS NOT 2, SO I CAN C THAT UR ATTCKING A BELEIVE 4 ALL LEBANESE, CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS..... THE WEAPON WHICH UR TALKING ABT WON'T GONNA BE DROPPED 4 ONE SIMPLE REASON.... ISRAEL, AS LONG AS ISRAEL IS FOUND, THE RESISTANCE ARMS IS FOUND, SO IF U REALLY WANNA GET RID OF THIS RESISTANCE, GO ND ELIMINTE ISRAEL, ND TRUST ME NO MORE WEAPON WILL BE NEEDED..... IT'S NOT THE MATTER IF IRAN IS HELPING THE LEBANESE RESISTANCE OR NOT IRAN, IT'S THE MATTER THAT THERE'S AN EXTERNAL AID FOR OUR RESISTANCE..... MANY COUNTRIES HELPED THE LEBANESE AND PALESTIANIAN RESISTANCE BEFORE IRAN.... SYRIA, LIBYA, ALGERIA, IRAQ.... AT THE PRESENT TIME IT'S IRAN... DON'T BE THAT UPSET BCZ OF THE RESISTANCE WEAPON, JUST SIMPLY GET USED TO IT, TRUST ME U WOULD FEEL BETTER, SHOU YI3NI!!!!!! MITLAK MTL HAL ISRA2ILI, MTL MA HOUWWI T3AWWAD 3A HAL SLE7, INTA FIK TIT3AWWAD............ TA77IYETNA

religious belief was not the target of my response.
it is only that for muslims in general religion and politics goes side by side.
e.g: answering or addressing SHN is addressing the politician or the Cleric?.
so...no offend.

what i meant....
Shiaa are waiting for Mehdi to lead them.
and until then they are not ready to disarm.
and this is a fact.
admit it to make me relax....

and so...the illusion called MoU.
does it give you the right to exist armed until israel will vanish?
and when it is going to vanish?
and what is the role of "AL MAHDI Al MUNTAZAR" in destroying israel?.

[SysTaMatIcS]

Originally Posted by IBIN BATTOUTA

religious belief was not the target of my response.
it is only that for muslims in general religion and politics goes side by side.
e.g: answering or addressing SHN is addressing the politician or the Cleric?.
so...no offend.

what i meant....
Shiaa are waiting for Mehdi to lead them.
and until then they are not ready to disarm.
and this is a fact.
admit it to make me relax....

and so...the illusion called MoU.
does it give you the right to exist armed until israel will vanish?
and when it is going to vanish?
and what is the role of "AL MAHDI Al MUNTAZAR" in destroying israel?.

TELL ME SOMETHIN! are the shiites in bahrain - saudia - azerbijan - egypt - usa - ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL AROUND THE WORLD are armed?? , cant u find another link y the shiites in lebanon are armed other than the mahdi al muntazar?? cant u think of somethin called the ISRAELI THREAT?? or u like to analyze things based on ur own standards that u make??? uv proved urself to be an 14 march pro

[Jess]

AFTER TALKING WITH fLAMY, WE THOUGHT OF RE-OPENING THIS THREAD BUT I JUST WANTED U TO KNOW ENO EACH AND EVERY OUT OF TOPIC POST WILL BE DIRECTLY DELETED!


THANK YOU

JESS

[Jess]

I, myself, voted "patriotic" 1 year ago

but after reading and searching for every single detail that happened in his life, i changed my mind and will say that he is A BIG TRAITOR

1st take a look at this pic



Patriotic and talking to Sharon??? i doubt

2nd he was the only president to be elected with Israeli protection

he attracted the persons back then by his speeches but never applied any single word.

He is simply a civil war leader

[El-Meghwar]

Originally Posted by deAtheganized

Well no offense but I am not used to see an elephant sitting in a room and not talk about it....

Good.

Excuse me for asking, but all what he did and everything said for remorse is "he was not an angel"??!!

I clearly said: no one was an angel, Bachir Gemayel fought against a foreign attack, unfortunately some Lebanese parties stood up side by side with these foreign forces.

When we had a weak state in Lebanon, Palestinians who were supposed to be guests and refugees were building their own state in here and planing to take over Lebanon, they were terrorizing Lebanese civilians in the streets with their illegal clear weapons.

Bachir Gemayel created the Lebanese Forces which is the united forces of Christian militias (Noumour el Ahrar- Guardians of Cedars- Tanzim- Kataeb) and prevented the palestinians and their lebanese allies from implementing their plans and turning Lebanon into another Occupied Palestine, but this time with Lebanese refugees all over the world, the Heroic palestinian militias were firing bullets and rockets on Lebanese regions and slaughtering kids and womens as a thankful message to the Lebanese people because they gave them a safe refuge in their country, it seems they thought that Jerusalem is in Jounieh, no problem with that since an idiot like Yasser Arafat can commit such a mistake and cause a civil war for 15 years and destroy a country.

bel 3arabeh l mshabra7, if Bachir gemayel didn't do what he has done, if he haven't fought in that time, me and a lot of Lebanese criticizing him right now without knowing the reason would have been dead (just like what happened in Damour and other places where the Lebanese Army was watching the palestinian militias slaughtering the innocents) or not even born or even living in a camp in Canada or the USA.

How can Bashir Gmayyel fans go on blaming politicians who dragged more and more Syrian intervention in Lebanon and then live with the fact that he was the person who dragged Israeli intervention into internal Lebanese affairs?

HAHAHA .. funny man
and do u still believe that Israel needs someone to drag it into Lebanon ??
ya 7abibeh Israel doesn't need any excuse to be dragged into Lebanon, Israel's main dream is to control Lebanon, Bachir Gemayel a president was a danger on the Israeli plans, that's why he was assassinated, just check his last speeches before his assassination, the man wasn't going to agree on any Israeli influence in Lebanon.
Israel was dragged into Lebanon by Palestinian Militias who were launching attacks from our country instead doing that from other places, that's what dragged Israel if it needs an excuse to be dragged !!!
and if really the SSNP assassinated Bachir Gemayel, i feel very comfortable to say it and in a loud voice: it was the best service ever offered to Israel by the SSNP !!!

[RAM BÓY™]

انا يا جماعة شهادتي مجروحة لانني منئزي من هالانسان(مع انو ما عندو جنس الانسانية)

اللّه ما قصّر في و متل ما بكّى امّاتنا اللّه بكّالو اهلو بالطّريقة اللّي بيستاهلها

[Gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

I clearly said: no one was an angel, Bachir Gemayel fought against a foreign attack, unfortunately some Lebanese parties stood up side by side with these foreign forces.

Yeah, just like his forces sat on the side and watched the Israeli war machine attacking Beirut....then came the part where he helped...If later on during the post you are gonna talk by the logic of "ma 7ada a7san menno", the post won't be worth my time. I am saying he is no hero and his legacy is full of mistakes and yes, traitory...like others. None of them will be safe from my criticism, rest assured.

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

When we had a weak state in Lebanon, Palestinians who were supposed to be guests and refugees were building their own state in here and planing to take over Lebanon, they were terrorizing Lebanese civilians in the streets with their illegal clear weapons.

Bachir Gemayel created the Lebanese Forces which is the united forces of Christian militias (Noumour el Ahrar- Guardians of Cedars- Tanzim- Kataeb) and prevented the palestinians and their lebanese allies from implementing their plans and turning Lebanon into another Occupied Palestine, but this time with Lebanese refugees all over the world, the Heroic palestinian militias were firing bullets and rockets on Lebanese regions and slaughtering kids and womens as a thankful message to the Lebanese people because they gave them a safe refuge in their country, it seems they thought that Jerusalem is in Jounieh, no problem with that since an idiot like Yasser Arafat can commit such a mistake and cause a civil war for 15 years and destroy a country.

*skimming quickly*

Yeah thats right...well most of it is The Palestinians did get armed and caused a lot of trouble and no doubt they are the main reason why the civil war started, Why did the Lebanese Forces had to be only Christian if it is to achieve such a noble patriotic goal as protecting the Lebanese from the Palestinians? Did you ever read why the people you called "the lebanese allies" of Palestinians allied themselves with Palestinians?

The truth is, the civil war wasn't only caused by the Palestinians as you try to make it sound. The reasons Muslim forces preferred to ally themselves with Palestinians where not ones of their choice and that I am sure a person like you must know. Palestinians could easily use the already existing conflict that is ready to escalate especially after becoming heavily armed in a relatively short period of time. If really the Palestinians...the foreigns ....were the problem or better say the only problem, the war would have taken another course.

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

bel 3arabeh l mshabra7, if Bachir gemayel didn't do what he has done, if he haven't fought in that time, me and a lot of Lebanese criticizing him right now without knowing the reason would have been dead (just like what happened in Damour and other places where the Lebanese Army was watching the palestinian militias slaughtering the innocents) or not even born or even living in a camp in Canada or the USA.

Same thing, if it wasn't for him a lot of innocent ppl who had nothing to with Fate7 or any of the people in the conflict would have been alive. You are again going with the "everyone did that" thing. No excuse, I never said anyone else is a hero or a saviour or a chosen one . The truth of your thoughts are, "tghaddaynehon abel ma yet3ashoona"... jungle law

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

HAHAHA .. funny man
and do u still believe that Israel needs someone to drag it into Lebanon ??
ya 7abibeh Israel doesn't need any excuse to be dragged into Lebanon, Israel's main dream is to control Lebanon, Bachir Gemayel a president was a danger on the Israeli plans, that's why he was assassinated, just check his last speeches before his assassination, the man wasn't going to agree on any Israeli influence in Lebanon.

Israel's main dream is to control lebanon ...God this is going in the funny posts thread Thanks god I read about Israel more than to be fooled by the lebanese propaganda and media the way you are...
Israel benefits the most from keeping Lebanon weak, now that is right Israel neither has the capacity nor the interest to fully control Lebanon even in the sense Syria did. And just for the sake of history, in many points in history, Israel could have behaved in a different manner if they wanted to control your little country. It hurts to know that they are not that interested in it I know, but believe it, it is true...
Speeches before assassination? As I always say about Iran and HA, when you receive money and weapons and training from a country you can't just turn your back on them, nothing is for free. And that is the case of your Bashir with Israel...

Originally Posted by El-Meghwar

Israel was dragged into Lebanon by Palestinian Militias who were launching attacks from our country instead doing that from other places, that's what dragged Israel if it needs an excuse to be dragged !!!
and if really the SSNP assassinated Bachir Gemayel, i feel very comfortable to say it and in a loud voice: it was the best service ever offered to Israel by the SSNP !!!

The part about Palestinians is right, but Israel would have had a whole different strategy if the Lebanese forces weren't welcoming of the step Israel decided to take. Mainly the nod by the Lebanese Forces to Israelis was very encouraging for them to attack and reach Beirut while the....LF heroes....watched first, and participated second...